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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 09 March 2022

09 Mar 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Justice for Families (Milly’s Law)
Mackay, Gillian Green Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

My thoughts are with all those whose care has fallen short of the high standards that we hold for our public services. Fighting to have your voice heard can be exhausting, so I also thank those who have tirelessly campaigned to bring injustices or failure to light, especially Milly’s family, and I thank Anas Sarwar for securing the debate.

Our public services are invaluable and we should all be able to rely on them, particularly during a global pandemic. Unfortunately, sometimes those services fall short of the standards that have been set for them. When that happens, it is right and proper that there is honesty and transparency about what has gone wrong and how those failings can be addressed. However, as the motion and the Government amendment note, individuals and their families are too often left seeking answers or justice.

We must not underestimate the pain and hurt caused to individuals who know that something is not right with either their or their loved ones’ care, but who are ignored or dismissed when they try to raise concerns. Too often, I know that people feel shut out of the process when investigations are taking place. It is important that any investigations and their findings are communicated on an on-going basis to patients and their families. It is essential that whenever public bodies have failed in their duty of care towards members of the public, they are held accountable.

Transparency and candour are fundamental to ensuring that people can trust the services that are available to help them. The public has a right to know when there have been failings, as well as what action will be taken to prevent such failures in future. Without that, relationships can be damaged. Understandably, that can lead to fear, hurt and anger on behalf of those who have been failed and their families. As we recover from one of the greatest challenges that our NHS has ever faced, we must prioritise rebuilding and repairing the relationships between patients and health services, which have been severely tested by the strain that Covid has placed on them.

As the Cumberlege report notes, the system is not good enough at spotting trends in practice and outcomes that give rise to safety concerns. The report found that people from all over the UK who have been affected have been dismissed, overlooked and ignored for far too long, and that the issue was not one of a single or a few rogue medical practitioners or differences in regional practice, but that it was system wide.

There is no intention to blame individual members of staff, the vast majority of whom work extremely hard to deliver excellent care for the people of Scotland. However, there is clearly a culture where patients are not always listened to when things go wrong. A “clinician knows best” approach fails to take into account that patients are often the first to know when something is not right with their own bodies or the care that they are receiving. That is why the creation of an independent patient safety commissioner will be so important and will ensure, when patients do have concerns and complaints, that they are listened to and that those complaints are considered alongside other similar concerns and complaints so that patterns can be detected at an early stage. The commissioner will be able to advocate for patients in a system that is not always willing to take their concerns seriously, or capable of doing so.

Services should be held accountable when failings are discovered but, when genuine mistakes have been made, we need to support staff to come forward, and to establish an opportunity for learning, training and development. Creating a hostile culture that discourages people from coming forward will not serve patients or staff well. The Sturrock review laid bare the cultural problems that exist within our NHS and the terrible toll that they have taken on staff, who are afraid to speak out about issues. We need to foster a culture in which people feel comfortable and safe in coming forward when mistakes have been made.

I close by expressing my thanks to all those working in the NHS and wider public services, many of whom have been dealing with extremely difficult conditions since the beginning of the pandemic. Improved transparency and accountability will serve patients and staff better, and we owe it to all who are affected to make sure that that happens.

15:50  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-03491, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on Milly’s law—justice for families. I ask members who wish to speak i...
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Two years ago, I stood up in Parliament and exposed the failures at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital. What has been uncovered since is a human tragedy...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I thank Anas Sarwar and Scottish Labour for bringing this very important debate to the chamber. I will address the points in the proposal that he has introdu...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
What the cabinet secretary has just said flies in the face of people’s experience. What sanctions would apply to health boards for not following the law?
Humza Yousaf SNP
I accept fully Jackie Baillie’s point that, on occasion, the processes that we have put in place are not followed; I have said that already. When I have disc...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of interests, which states that I am a practising NHS doctor. The Scottish Conservatives welcome Anas ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I would be happy to look into that issue in more detail. I know of the issue because—far from it being shrouded in secrecy—the health board issued a press re...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I am talking about the internal walls, not the cladding—Interruption.—Was that before December’s debate, when ministers doubled down to defend the health boa...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am pleased to speak for my party in the debate and I thank Anas Sarwar for all his work with families and victims to shine a spotlight on the important iss...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 15:24
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that my party has brought the debate to the chamber. It is the right thing to do, and passing the law would, equally, be the right thing to do. Tha...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I, too, associate myself with the comments that were made at the outset, and I thank eve...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The debate is about the fundamental relationship between the individual and the state and about whether Governments and public institutions have a duty of tr...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I hope that the member gets her time back for this intervention—she is making an interesting and important point. The problem is that, in an inquiry such as ...
Katy Clark Lab
The member raises an important point, which I do not have time to come back to in detail in this debate, but I hope that we will be able to explore it on ano...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Ms Clark, I must ask you to wind up.
Katy Clark Lab
I very much hope that the Parliament will look sympathetically on the motion.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you—I am afraid that we are very tight for time. 15:37
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I start by sending my condolences to anyone affected by the tragic events at the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Glasgow. Nothing that we say or do in the chambe...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Let me first express my condolences to Milly’s family. I have a 10-year-old granddaughter, the same age as Milly was when she died, and have similar images o...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
My thoughts are with all those whose care has fallen short of the high standards that we hold for our public services. Fighting to have your voice heard can ...
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I begin by offering my condolences to Milly Main’s family for the circumstances that have led us here, and expressing my admiration for the courage and deter...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the closing speeches. 15:55
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
This has been an interesting debate, with some informed and constructive contributions. I thank Anas Sarwar for the way in which he moved the motion, and I t...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I think that this is the second time that I have said this in as many months, Presiding Officer, but it is a genuine pleasure to follow Jackson Carlaw’s cont...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
It cannot be acceptable that, in today’s Scotland, bereaved families should have to fight tooth and nail for justice for their loved ones when the unthinkabl...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate on Milly’s law: justice for families. There will be a brief pause before the next item of business.