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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 09 March 2022

09 Mar 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Justice for Families (Milly’s Law)

I thank Anas Sarwar and Scottish Labour for bringing this very important debate to the chamber. I will address the points in the proposal that he has introduced about Milly’s law shortly.

I start where Anas Sarwar started: by thanking all those who work in our public services up and down the country. In a time of unprecedented pressure, they have been tireless in their efforts. Staff in the NHS, Police Scotland and other public organisations have worked every single day during the Covid-19 pandemic to care for and support the people of Scotland. Despite the significant pressures that our public services have been under, we know that staff always aim to provide the best service they can provide to members of the public. Again, I record my thanks to them for that.

However, given my role, I am the first to acknowledge that there are times when the quality of service or care that is provided by our public services falls far short of the high standards that members of the public, members of the Scottish Government and, I suspect, members across the chamber expect to be consistently delivered. When that happens, individuals and families should be supported; they should have their questions answered and their concerns addressed and they should be told honestly what has happened, what will be done in response and what actions will be taken to ensure that the same never happens again. Transparency must be at the heart of all such efforts. That is particularly vital following the pain and distress of losing a child. I can imagine no worse pain that could befall a parent or a family.

I recognise that, on occasions, rather than being given the information that they seek, people who are affected and their families are instead left seeking answers. Therefore, I say at the outset that the proposal from Anas Sarwar and Scottish Labour on Milly’s law will be considered with an open mind by the Government and by me, in my role as Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. I extend an invitation to Mr Sarwar to meet me to discuss the details of the proposals and, indeed, to discuss a member’s bill, if he intends to lodge such a bill.

My initial thoughts are that there is certainly merit in a number of the Milly’s law proposals, but I think that some of the proposals that Mr Sarwar has put forward need further consideration and discussion. It is possible that work towards some of the outcomes that he seeks could already be in train, through action that the Government is taking. I will elaborate on my thinking on that shortly.

Before I do so, I apologise without hesitation to all the people who have had poor experiences while in the care of the NHS or other public services. We have already established an independent public inquiry, led by Lord Philip Brodie QC, to fully investigate the issues that were highlighted by Milly’s case. The Government will, of course, co-operate fully with that inquiry.

There are already systems and processes in place in NHS Scotland that make openness and transparency when things go wrong not just a principle—I think that that is the word that Anas Sarwar used—but a statutory obligation, through our laws on the duty of candour. That means that health boards are legally required to review certain types of incidents, to meet personally people who have been affected, to investigate the issues that are raised, to offer an apology and to consider what learning can be applied.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-03491, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on Milly’s law—justice for families. I ask members who wish to speak i...
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Two years ago, I stood up in Parliament and exposed the failures at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital. What has been uncovered since is a human tragedy...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I thank Anas Sarwar and Scottish Labour for bringing this very important debate to the chamber. I will address the points in the proposal that he has introdu...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
What the cabinet secretary has just said flies in the face of people’s experience. What sanctions would apply to health boards for not following the law?
Humza Yousaf SNP
I accept fully Jackie Baillie’s point that, on occasion, the processes that we have put in place are not followed; I have said that already. When I have disc...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of interests, which states that I am a practising NHS doctor. The Scottish Conservatives welcome Anas ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I would be happy to look into that issue in more detail. I know of the issue because—far from it being shrouded in secrecy—the health board issued a press re...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I am talking about the internal walls, not the cladding—Interruption.—Was that before December’s debate, when ministers doubled down to defend the health boa...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am pleased to speak for my party in the debate and I thank Anas Sarwar for all his work with families and victims to shine a spotlight on the important iss...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 15:24
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that my party has brought the debate to the chamber. It is the right thing to do, and passing the law would, equally, be the right thing to do. Tha...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I, too, associate myself with the comments that were made at the outset, and I thank eve...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The debate is about the fundamental relationship between the individual and the state and about whether Governments and public institutions have a duty of tr...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I hope that the member gets her time back for this intervention—she is making an interesting and important point. The problem is that, in an inquiry such as ...
Katy Clark Lab
The member raises an important point, which I do not have time to come back to in detail in this debate, but I hope that we will be able to explore it on ano...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Ms Clark, I must ask you to wind up.
Katy Clark Lab
I very much hope that the Parliament will look sympathetically on the motion.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you—I am afraid that we are very tight for time. 15:37
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I start by sending my condolences to anyone affected by the tragic events at the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Glasgow. Nothing that we say or do in the chambe...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Let me first express my condolences to Milly’s family. I have a 10-year-old granddaughter, the same age as Milly was when she died, and have similar images o...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
My thoughts are with all those whose care has fallen short of the high standards that we hold for our public services. Fighting to have your voice heard can ...
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I begin by offering my condolences to Milly Main’s family for the circumstances that have led us here, and expressing my admiration for the courage and deter...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the closing speeches. 15:55
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
This has been an interesting debate, with some informed and constructive contributions. I thank Anas Sarwar for the way in which he moved the motion, and I t...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I think that this is the second time that I have said this in as many months, Presiding Officer, but it is a genuine pleasure to follow Jackson Carlaw’s cont...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
It cannot be acceptable that, in today’s Scotland, bereaved families should have to fight tooth and nail for justice for their loved ones when the unthinkabl...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate on Milly’s law: justice for families. There will be a brief pause before the next item of business.