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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 March 2022

03 Mar 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

The bill is not a fait accompli. It has just been introduced in Parliament and it will be for Parliament—Conservatives and everybody else across the chamber—to scrutinise it, to look at the evidence, to hear all the different views about it and then to come to a conclusion about whether it should be supported. Our role as legislators is to scrutinise the evidence, which will be important.

I have spent a lot of time in meetings with people who are very supportive of the bill and with people who are vehemently opposed to it. I have tried to go through some of the issues and concerns that they have raised. I am not sure whether fears have been allayed, but it is fair to say that some of the fears and concerns are not directly related to the proposals in the bill; rather, there is general wider concern, which the bill will not change. There are issues that we could say relate to existing processes. However, fears are fears, and we have to do what we can to address concerns. I will continue to do that.

On the specific question about changes, I will mention one of the important changes that arose from listening to concerns. I was asked about how we will monitor the impact of the legislation. In response to that, we have introduced a new provision in the bill that requires annual reporting on the operation of the legislation. Ireland has done such reporting on the legislation there for seven years, including on things such as the number of GRCs that have been issued. That is a concrete example of what we have done, having listened to concerns. The bill was changed accordingly.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a statement by Shona Robison on the introduction of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. Before I call the cabinet se...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison) SNP
I have introduced the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, which proposes reforms to simplify the process for trans men and women to obtain a gender re...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 30 minutes for questions, after which we will m...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for providing advance sight of her statement. On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I welcome the tone of the cabinet secr...
Shona Robison SNP
First, I thank Meghan Gallacher for her tone and for her offer of constructive scrutiny. That is very welcome. Concerns about women’s rights and safety are ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I, too, thank the cabinet secretary for advanced sight of the statement and for her tone. This is about rights. The Parliament has been bold before—for exam...
Shona Robison SNP
I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for her remarks and for her questions. It has taken time to get to this point, and I think that we all understand the reasons: the...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I thank the cabinet secretary whole-heartedly for her statement, which is most welcome, as is the legislation that she has introduced. I also thank her for h...
Shona Robison SNP
Yes, I would agree with that. I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for his questions and the tone of his contribution. It is important that we listen to the experienc...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP) SNP
As has been said, the debate around gender recognition can at times involve the use of language that some people can find hurtful and derogatory. Following o...
Shona Robison SNP
Yes, I do, and I think that we have made a good start on that, through your remarks, Presiding Officer—if you do not mind me saying that—and the tone of the ...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The Equality and Human Rights Commission said that simplifying the law on gender could have consequences for data collection, participation and drug testing ...
Shona Robison SNP
Yes. However, we continue to consider the impact of the bill, and the Parliament will do so as part of its evidence gathering and scrutiny of that evidence. ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I was glad to hear the cabinet secretary highlight that transgender people face harassment for living their lives and that some social media comments are jus...
Shona Robison SNP
Yes, I agree with that. Trans people just want to be able to get on with their lives, as part of society, without facing prejudice and harassment. They want ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I want to ask about the interaction between section 22 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the 2010 act exceptions. The consultation on the draft bill not...
Shona Robison SNP
First, guidance will be issued on a number of elements of the bill. Let me be clear about the general occupational requirement exception. That does not chan...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I, too, welcome the tone of the comments made by members from across the chamber. It is very welcome indeed. Does the cabinet secretary agree that the bill ...
Shona Robison SNP
That is an important point. We have always achieved rights for each other when we have stood together to strive for further rights and equality. The bill is ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank the cabinet secretary for early sight of her statement. We know that trans people in Scotland and in all parts of the world are at heightened risk o...
Shona Robison SNP
I agree that the bill is not about whether trans people should be able to live their lives as they wish. They have those protections explicitly under the Equ...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I appreciate that the cabinet secretary stated that the legislation and the policy of self-ID does not change the protections afforded by the Equality Act 20...
Shona Robison SNP
I know that the issues that Ruth Maguire has raised about the potential impact of the changes on single-sex spaces and services have been a clear focus. I wa...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Women’s groups have felt sidelined during the consultation process, and they believe that the bill was a fait accompli before they had the opportunity to dis...
Shona Robison SNP
The bill is not a fait accompli. It has just been introduced in Parliament and it will be for Parliament—Conservatives and everybody else across the chamber—...
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I have spoken directly with young trans people and older trans people who have been through the process of obtaining a gender recognition certificate. They h...
Shona Robison SNP
Yes—I agree with that. Fundamentally, this is about supporting people who are already living in their acquired gender. It is clear from our consultations tha...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the introduction of the bill, and I associate myself with the comments of my colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy and with comments that members from across...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I hope that you could hear that clearly enough, cabinet secretary.
Shona Robison SNP
I think I got the gist of it. Parliament sets the timetable for bills: the stage 1 debate, then stage 2 consideration and then stage 3. The role of the comm...