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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 01 March 2022

01 Mar 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Veterans (Mental Health and Wellbeing)

It is a great pleasure to speak in the debate, but it is right to echo the words about the situation in Ukraine, which brings so much of what we have talked about this afternoon very close to home. I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for his comments about widening the debate. The debate needs to include our veterans’ families. As the cabinet secretary said, it is almost a tripod situation whereby, if we cannot get right every part that surrounds a veteran, we fail not only the veteran but those around them.

Those who have served—our veterans—are part of our community. They are our brothers and sisters, our fathers and mothers, and, too frequently, our children, and they are a valuable asset in Scotland’s workplaces and in Scotland’s future. Only at the weekend, I was speaking to a major employer who had nothing but praise for veterans who came into their business, saying that veterans brought skills and a can-do attitude that that employer could not find elsewhere. Veterans were prepared to share with younger members of the team a way of doing things that perhaps those who had not served were unable to see.

It is important that, when those who have served come to the end of that career—be it through time, injury or choice—there is a smooth transition into their civilian life. I echo Graeme Dey’s comments about an holistic approach being needed towards that group. Finlay Carson powerfully vocalised the fact that there needs to be a tailored transition into civilian life that reflects the individual service personnel’s experiences in the armed forces and the fact that such a tailored approach should continue for that individual in their civilian life.

I echo Christine Grahame’s comments about the armed forces covenant and the importance of talking about families. I would like to discuss that issue, not to detract from the needs of our veterans as individuals but to highlight a group that surrounds our veterans and that, indeed, is often the first to notice a difference in those individuals. I pay tribute to the charities and groups that work with veterans’ families. I had the great privilege of meeting Forces Children Scotland, which is the renamed Royal Caledonian Education Trust, which works not only with the children of serving families but with those of veterans.

It is a very hard group to identify. The Ministry of Defence does not appear to know even how many children of serving personnel there are, let alone how many children of veterans there are. The change in the census is welcome, because, unless we can quantify that group and identify their locations, we will not be able to offer the tailored help that those young people need and are crying out for. We need to help them to share their experiences and be part of the solutions.

I had the privilege of listening to some children of armed forces personnel as they talked about the difficulties that they have in civilian life. They talked about dealing with other children, who are sometimes more open minded than some adults, and the challenges that they find when they move to a new area, change schools and have to tell their story yet again and explain why they need different, specialised and individual help.

Forces Children Scotland has collected some quotes from young people. One that I would like to share is about the mental health of a young person, who said:

“I couldn’t attend all CAMHS appointments as ... school couldn’t provide travel to all the appointments. CAMHS then discharged me because of the length of time between appointments.”

It is tragic that a young person who had got to the top of the child and adolescent mental health services waiting list should suddenly lose that place because they were unable to travel to the appointments. I find it unbelievable that an adult could treat a young person in that way and not, as we would hope people in Scotland would, take the extra step and find a way to help them.

My call on the Government has been partly answered with the reference to the data that is already being collected, but I will suggest another approach. If the SEEMiS computer system that is used across our education service could be used to identify young people whose parents or carers are serving in the armed forces, are in the reserves or are veterans, we would be able to collate a central database of those young people so that they could be identified and an individualised, holistic approach could be taken, with support that meets their needs. It would also empower the adults who surround them to point out their almost unique position as a group of young people who require very specific, individualised help, which the young people are often only too keen to share with those adults.

I would be grateful if the Government took the opportunity to look at that, because, just as we have veterans champions who sit within our local authorities and some employers, it might be very good to have a young person’s voice for the families of our veterans, serving personnel and reserve forces.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-03381, in the name of Keith Brown, on a Scottish approach to the mental health and wellbeing of our veter...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans (Keith Brown) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate, as we emerge from the pandemic. The mental health of the whole population is a fundamental consideration for the Scottish ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In the motion, the cabinet secretary mentions veterans and their families. Will he, in his speech, talk about the support that is aimed at veterans’ families...
Keith Brown SNP
I will. Martin Whitfield will find references to families throughout my speech. I am sure that the minister, too, will mention families, when he speaks. The...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can inform the chamber that the time that we had available across the afternoon was exhausted earlier, so I will have to ask members to stick to their time...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank the minister for his opening remarks. I am very pleased to open the debate on behalf of my party. The Scottish Conservatives believe that veterans mu...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I begin by sharing the sentiments from across the chamber of solidarity with the people of Ukraine, who are showing such immense bravery in the face of conti...
Martin Whitfield Lab
When we talk about the community, we are talking about not just the veterans but their families. One challenge with using the census data is that additional ...
Paul Sweeney Lab
My friend raises an extremely important point about data interdependencies. That metadata will be critical to building a network of understanding about depen...
Keith Brown SNP
I agree with the member’s point, but will he recognise that we have tried for years to get information on veterans in Scotland from the United Kingdom Govern...
Paul Sweeney Lab
I recognise that complaint, and it is certainly one that I made frequently when I was a member in the House of Commons. I accept that we have made a breakthr...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I apologise to members, as I will have to leave the debate early. I am privileged to speak for my party in this important debate, and I am grateful to the c...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
I very much welcome the scheduling of the debate, both because of the importance of the subject matter and because it represents a potential sea change in br...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
An estimated 5 million veterans live in the UK at present, and a further 20,000 personnel leave the armed forces every year. When they leave, their healthcar...
Paul Sweeney Lab
Does the member agree that a particularly difficult cohort is those whose discharge is unplanned—for example, if they have failed a compulsory drugs test—and...
Finlay Carson Con
Absolutely. Our veterans can find themselves in different and unique situations. Those need to be addressed in a unique and proper way. The position that ma...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Paul O’Kane—I am sorry; I call Christine Grahame, to be followed by Paul O’Kane. 15:50
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I thought that I had changed identity for a moment, Presiding Officer. It is a bitter irony that, as we debate the issue, men and women on both sides in Ukr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Paul O’Kane, who joins us remotely. 15:57
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I associate myself with the comments of colleagues on the unfolding horrors in Ukraine. Once again, I offer my solidarity to the Ukrainian people. I thank K...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests: I am a councillor on Aberdeen City Council. Last week, a family member WhatsApped me with...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
Like all members, the Scottish Conservatives want servicemen and servicewomen who choose to settle in Scotland on leaving our armed forces to know that they ...
Keith Brown SNP
Will Sue Webber give way?
Sue Webber Con
I will not. Thank you. That means that members of the armed forces will receive the same income, regardless of where they are domiciled in the UK. We calle...
Paul Sweeney Lab
Will Sue Webber give way?
Sue Webber Con
I will not at the moment, thanks. Invaluable work is done by non-government organisations. I pay tribute to the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen & Families Ass...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
One in 10 UK armed forces personnel was seen by military healthcare services for a mental health related reason in 2020-21. Although that represents a fall i...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Veterans, service personnel and their families contribute a huge amount to our society. I welcome the great strides that the Scottish Government has made tow...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a great pleasure to speak in the debate, but it is right to echo the words about the situation in Ukraine, which brings so much of what we have talked ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Kenneth Gibson will be the last speaker in the open debate. 16:33