Hansard

The Deputy Convener (David Torrance) SNP

Welcome to the third meeting in 2022 of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee. There are apologies from our convener, Jackson Carlaw, and ...

Claire Mitchell QC

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to speak and to answer any questions that you have for us. We are delighted about the progress that has already b...

The Deputy Convener SNP

Zoe Venditozzi, do you have any initial comments?

Zoe Venditozzi

I will just say thank you for having us.

The Deputy Convener SNP

I will start the questions. What first led you to explore the experience of witches who were convicted in Scotland, and why did you feel that it was importan...

Claire Mitchell

I work as a lawyer, and I have specialised over past years in cases that involve miscarriages of justice. I therefore look through the lens of history at whe...

The Deputy Convener SNP

Thank you for that comprehensive answer. I was going to speak about pardons, an apology and a national monument, all of which you have covered. Does Zoe Vend...

Zoe Venditozzi

It is important and it has become increasingly obvious to us during the campaign that, sadly, the issue is not relegated to the past. There are countries aro...

The Deputy Convener SNP

Thank you. My colleagues will now ask questions.

Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP

Good morning, Zoe and Claire. Thanks for being with us. What would lead to a woman being accused of witchcraft? There are some misapprehensions about the ty...

Zoe Venditozzi

Sadly, that could have been anything. The person might have fallen out with somebody about the price that they had paid for something, they might have been a...

Claire Mitchell

There are misconceptions that the people who were accused were healers or midwives—that is a common misconception—that they had red hair, or that there was s...

The Deputy Convener SNP

Ruth, do you have any further questions?

Ruth Maguire SNP

I do. Will I just keep coming back in, convener?

The Deputy Convener SNP

Yes, please, and indicate when you are finished.

Ruth Maguire SNP

Okay. I will not wait for an invite. Who would normally conduct the trials, and what sort of evidence would be used to secure a conviction? Claire, you gave...

Claire Mitchell

Certainly. Another misconception is that the trials were religious trials, but they were conducted by the state, and that is why it is appropriate for the st...

Ruth Maguire SNP

In your opening statement, you mentioned 2,500 people being executed and 4,000 being tortured. How confident are you that the figures set out in the survey o...

Claire Mitchell

The experts have obviously done a great deal of research on the matter. In so far as they have been able to, they have gone through the records of what happe...

Ruth Maguire SNP

That does say something to the scale of it. I want to ask about the change in law in 1735 after the so-called “glorious revolution”. Will you talk a bit mor...

Claire Mitchell

I will answer that legal question and then perhaps Zoe Venditozzi can take over. The state and the church vehemently believed that the devil was among us....

Ruth Maguire SNP

Zoe, do you have anything to add on those questions?

Zoe Venditozzi

No. Claire has definitely covered everything from the legal perspective. I am not a lawyer; I have come into this like any normal person who does not know an...

Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con

It has been fascinating to hear the history that you have given us and to gain an understanding of the culture in Scotland at the time and the power of the s...

Claire Mitchell

We of course acknowledge that these things happened a very long time ago. That is a relevant and necessary question for us to be able to answer. My first ans...

Zoe Venditozzi

I would just say that, although we have changed a lot over time and have, obviously, grown and now view ourselves as being more civilised, there is still an ...

Alexander Stewart Con

You talk about the miscarriage of justice, and I think that many people would identify that as the core issue. However, many would also identify the fact tha...

Claire Mitchell

Absolutely—I could not agree more. That is exactly how it was. What we want for Scotland in the 21st century and looking forward is a generation that comes a...

The Deputy Convener SNP

I believe that Ruth Maguire has some more questions. 10:30

Ruth Maguire SNP

I think that they have been covered. I wanted to explore a bit more the discriminatory nature of the issue, but the petitioners have told us in their evidenc...