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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 09 February 2022

09 Feb 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Coronavirus (Discretionary Compensation for Self-isolation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

That is an issue that we will have to chew over in the bill process—whether we should have a statute book that can deal with emergencies. The Conservatives could quite easily muster up an argument to say, “Oh my goodness, you have been sitting in government for 15 years and have not yet got the statute book ready for emergency situations.” They could put forward that argument, and I would not put it past them to do so. We will leave that argument there and come back to pursue it on another, unhappy day.

In relation to the bill, I welcome the comments that colleagues have made. A number of colleagues have made points about the importance of ensuring that the self-isolation grant is available to people who require it. I have put on record the steps that we have taken to improve awareness of it. We will continue to do that, because it is vital that individuals receive the support that is necessary.

Jackie Baillie asked me about the United Kingdom Government’s decisions—well, not even decisions, but statements that were made by the Prime Minister earlier today about the removal of any requirement for self-isolation. I will just say to her that I have no clinical advice that would suggest to me that that is a good idea on the timescale that is presented. I shall leave it to Jackie Baillie to judge whether that announcement at Prime Minister’s questions had anything to do with clinical judgment or whether it had more to do with the survivability in office of the current Prime Minister. I think that that is no way to take decisions on an important question of that type.

Moving on to the debate, I confirm that the Government will support the reasoned amendment that Jackie Baillie has moved. However, I want to say a couple of things about it.

First, the Government’s approach to self-isolation support has been very mindful of the importance of ensuring that the self-isolation support grant delivers the national living wage. Obviously, we are putting a different obligation on people for the duration of self-isolation now than we did at earlier stages of the pandemic. The requirement today would be for individuals to self-isolate for seven days and then, with satisfactory clearance from lateral flow tests, to return to work. With £500, they would receive a sum of money that is in excess of the national living wage. That is obviously different from where we started. I accept the terms of the amendment, which asks the Government to review the amount that is paid. We will do that. Our objective is to ensure that that amount at least matches the national living wage, and that has been our position throughout the pandemic.

My second point about the reasoned amendment is that I hope that I do not find myself in the situation, which only a handful of us in Parliament will recall—Liz Smith will recall it—that occurred on the occasion of my first budget to the Parliament, in 2007 or 2008, when I accepted a reasoned amendment from the Labour Party at the conclusion of the stage 3 debate and the Labour Party proceeded to vote against the budget and its reasoned amendment. A few of us have been here long enough to remember that; my dear friend Christine Grahame was here, and she remembers it as well. I hope that I do not find myself in that situation at decision time and find that, after I have generously accepted the reasoned amendment, the Labour Party does the unthinkable on me and does not support the bill.

This is a very practical bill. It is designed to protect the finances of our health boards but also to put in place the support that is required by members of the public who we ask to self-isolate. I invite Parliament to support the bill, along with the reasoned amendment at decision time.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-03080, in the name of John Swinney, on the Coronavirus (Discretionary Compensation for Self-isolation) (S...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery (John Swinney) SNP
I am pleased to open the final debate on the Coronavirus (Discretionary Compensation for Self-isolation) (Scotland) Bill. I am grateful to members of Parlia...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I place on record my thanks to the COVID-19 Recovery Committee, those who gave evidence, the bill team and the Deputy First Minister for getting us to this s...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Could the member explain the figure referred to in her amendment? The £500 would be 50 hours at £10 an hour.
Jackie Baillie Lab
If Mr Mason will let me develop the point, he will see where we got the calculations from. Scottish Labour’s reasoned amendment is a recognition that the fi...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a member of the Law Society of Scotland. This is the final point ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I am sure that the member would agree that, as the cost of living crisis is laid bare, it is absolutely right for us to consider and keep under review the am...
Murdo Fraser Con
I hear what Jackie Baillie says. Of course, she could have introduced an amendment at stage 3 to implement the change, instead of lodging a reasoned amendmen...
John Mason SNP
I was doing some calculations on a bit of paper myself. I reckon that, if someone was self-isolating for 10 days, with two days for a weekend, they would oth...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Mason is, of course, an accountant. I bow to his mastery of the figures at such short notice. I am sure that Ms Baillie will have the chance to respond to...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
We move to the open debate. 16:09
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak, Presiding Officer. I fear that there will be a bit of repetition from the stage 1 debate, given that little...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a practising NHS general practitioner. The past two year...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Since March 2020, many have made sacrifices in exchange for the protection of our national health service and our fellow citizens. Taking action such as self...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
As has been noted by others, the Public Health etc (Scotland) Act 2008 was written long before the Covid pandemic and was not intended to meet the challenges...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Gillian Mackay said that it was appropriate, given the cost of living crisis, to regularly review the amount paid. Does that mean that she will be supporting...
Gillian Mackay Green
I thought that that would be Jackie Baillie’s question. Yes, I will be supporting the amendment. Alongside ensuring that adequate support is available, we m...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Siobhian Brown, who is the last speaker in the open debate. 16:24
Siobhian Brown (Ayr) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee, I thank my fellow committee members and our highly professional clerking team for their work as we considered...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In closing the debate for Scottish Labour, and in expressing our support for the principles and intentions of the bill, I encourage Parliament to support Sco...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am happy to close the stage 3 debate on the Coronavirus (Discretionary Compensation for Self-isolation) (Scotland) Bill on behalf of the Scottish Conservat...
John Swinney SNP
Hear, hear.
Brian Whittle Con
Thank you. That was a welcome intervention from the cabinet secretary. I put on record my thanks to all those who have helped with the process, particularly...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I am sure that the member recognises that that is entirely in the gift of the Presiding Officer. I am sure that he does not intend to challenge her ruling. W...
Brian Whittle Con
We are a very reasoned party, as Jackie Baillie is well aware. Of course, I would never criticise the Presiding Officer—I would never do that. However, I sug...
John Swinney SNP
I am delighted to have the opportunity to close the debate. I will address the one and only discordant issue first, before I get on to my usual generous way ...
Brian Whittle Con
In a reasonable way, I gently suggest to the cabinet secretary that the issue that we have with the upcoming legislation is the fact that, as we exit the oth...
John Swinney SNP
That is an issue that we will have to chew over in the bill process—whether we should have a statute book that can deal with emergencies. The Conservatives c...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate.