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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 09 February 2022

09 Feb 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Coronavirus (Discretionary Compensation for Self-isolation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Mason, John SNP Glasgow Shettleston Watch on SPTV

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak, Presiding Officer. I fear that there will be a bit of repetition from the stage 1 debate, given that little has changed in the time since then. Stage 2 amendments were minimal, as the Deputy First Minister said, and were completely accepted by all members of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee, including me.

However, despite the general consensus on the bill and the lack of controversy, I argue that this is an important bill and not just a technical one, as some members have suggested. If we do not pass the bill, the NHS will face additional costs of some £360 million, which is a substantial amount, and it is clear that other services will suffer.

The background to the bill was explained at stage 1 and has been explained again today. The bill deals with Covid-19; it does not provide for the blanket modification of the 2008 act that was the approach of the United Kingdom legislation that we are replacing. Therefore, if someone has to self-isolate because of an infectious disease other than Covid, they will become entitled to the full compensation regime.

An issue that I mentioned previously but which I think is worth repeating is the difference between the number of people who said that they followed the self-isolation rules and the number who self-isolated properly when they were told to do so. It is reckoned that 94 per cent claimed to have followed the rules, but when that was studied in more detail it was found that only 74 per cent actually did so. In particular, the Government’s detailed literature review indicated that there were lower rates of compliance among men, people in younger age groups, key workers, people from poorer backgrounds and people who had a dependent child in the household. The reviewers said:

“Rates of compliance are heavily influenced by financial constraints and depend on income support, job protection and support with accommodation. The economic risks of self-isolating are often perceived as more significant than risks to health, particularly for people from more disadvantaged backgrounds.”

One factor in that regard is almost certainly the availability and level of compensation. For many people on low incomes, being off work for even a few days is a serious step, and some employers are more supportive than others.

Some people did not know about the compensation that was available, as Jackie Baillie and others said, while others thought that it would impact on their benefits. Some people found it difficult to access compensation and appear to have been knocked back without the reasons for that being made clear.

The level of compensation needs to be carefully considered. The Labour amendment touches on that, although the level of compensation is not part of the bill. As I said during an intervention, I think that £500 is a reasonable amount, equating to 50 hours at £10 per hour or 35 hours at £14 per hour, and I understand that the Labour amendment would mean roughly £560 for many people. If that is the case, I can certainly live with the approach that Labour proposes.

However, households’ essential weekly expenditure varies considerably. For future pandemics, a Government might want to look at tailoring support according to need, although we know from experience over the past two years that the more targeted the support is to be, the longer it takes to design the system and make the payments.

The Law Society had pointed out that there was no definition of “emergency”, and said that the Government should be proactive in setting out why regulations need to be made urgently, so I am glad that the Government took that point on at stage 2 and lodged an appropriate amendment.

Overall, I am happy to support the bill. Full compensation for everyone in the country who has suffered loss because of self-isolation or other aspects of the pandemic has not been and is not affordable or possible, so a more limited and targeted support scheme has been required. The bill seeks to continue that approach.

16:13  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-03080, in the name of John Swinney, on the Coronavirus (Discretionary Compensation for Self-isolation) (S...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery (John Swinney) SNP
I am pleased to open the final debate on the Coronavirus (Discretionary Compensation for Self-isolation) (Scotland) Bill. I am grateful to members of Parlia...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I place on record my thanks to the COVID-19 Recovery Committee, those who gave evidence, the bill team and the Deputy First Minister for getting us to this s...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Could the member explain the figure referred to in her amendment? The £500 would be 50 hours at £10 an hour.
Jackie Baillie Lab
If Mr Mason will let me develop the point, he will see where we got the calculations from. Scottish Labour’s reasoned amendment is a recognition that the fi...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a member of the Law Society of Scotland. This is the final point ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I am sure that the member would agree that, as the cost of living crisis is laid bare, it is absolutely right for us to consider and keep under review the am...
Murdo Fraser Con
I hear what Jackie Baillie says. Of course, she could have introduced an amendment at stage 3 to implement the change, instead of lodging a reasoned amendmen...
John Mason SNP
I was doing some calculations on a bit of paper myself. I reckon that, if someone was self-isolating for 10 days, with two days for a weekend, they would oth...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Mason is, of course, an accountant. I bow to his mastery of the figures at such short notice. I am sure that Ms Baillie will have the chance to respond to...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
We move to the open debate. 16:09
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak, Presiding Officer. I fear that there will be a bit of repetition from the stage 1 debate, given that little...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a practising NHS general practitioner. The past two year...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Since March 2020, many have made sacrifices in exchange for the protection of our national health service and our fellow citizens. Taking action such as self...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
As has been noted by others, the Public Health etc (Scotland) Act 2008 was written long before the Covid pandemic and was not intended to meet the challenges...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Gillian Mackay said that it was appropriate, given the cost of living crisis, to regularly review the amount paid. Does that mean that she will be supporting...
Gillian Mackay Green
I thought that that would be Jackie Baillie’s question. Yes, I will be supporting the amendment. Alongside ensuring that adequate support is available, we m...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Siobhian Brown, who is the last speaker in the open debate. 16:24
Siobhian Brown (Ayr) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee, I thank my fellow committee members and our highly professional clerking team for their work as we considered...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In closing the debate for Scottish Labour, and in expressing our support for the principles and intentions of the bill, I encourage Parliament to support Sco...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am happy to close the stage 3 debate on the Coronavirus (Discretionary Compensation for Self-isolation) (Scotland) Bill on behalf of the Scottish Conservat...
John Swinney SNP
Hear, hear.
Brian Whittle Con
Thank you. That was a welcome intervention from the cabinet secretary. I put on record my thanks to all those who have helped with the process, particularly...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I am sure that the member recognises that that is entirely in the gift of the Presiding Officer. I am sure that he does not intend to challenge her ruling. W...
Brian Whittle Con
We are a very reasoned party, as Jackie Baillie is well aware. Of course, I would never criticise the Presiding Officer—I would never do that. However, I sug...
John Swinney SNP
I am delighted to have the opportunity to close the debate. I will address the one and only discordant issue first, before I get on to my usual generous way ...
Brian Whittle Con
In a reasonable way, I gently suggest to the cabinet secretary that the issue that we have with the upcoming legislation is the fact that, as we exit the oth...
John Swinney SNP
That is an issue that we will have to chew over in the bill process—whether we should have a statute book that can deal with emergencies. The Conservatives c...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate.