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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 24 November 2021

24 Nov 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Transvaginal Mesh Removal (Cost Reimbursement) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

It gives me great pleasure to speak for the Liberal Democrats in support of the bill’s general principles at stage 1. When it comes to domestic health scandals, in my short career as an MSP, I cannot remember another issue that has captured the universal support, concern and horror of members in the way that this issue has done.

I recognise the valiant work of Jackson Carlaw, Alex Neil and Neil Findlay in bringing the issue to our attention and introducing us to some of the survivors of the mesh scandal. Nobody who met those survivors when they came to the Parliament can forget their abject pain or the profound dignity with which they conducted themselves.

I welcome the bill. It has the potential to provide further closure to women at the heart of the issue who have already taken the step to have mesh removed privately.

I want to take a moment to remember why we are here in the first place and why the bill is so necessary. Four years ago, I was contacted by a constituent of mine, who has given me permission to share her story.

In 2010, after suffering very mild issues with incontinence, Cathy was referred by her physiotherapist to a consultant who suggested that she should undergo a marvellous new procedure. Somewhat bewildered, she was asked to sign a consent form then and there. She said that it felt like she was entering some kind of clinical trial—a feeling that is characteristic of many women’s stories—although it was never quite spelled out to her in that way. In fact, nothing was properly spelled out to her. Despite being booked for the most invasive transobturator tension-free vaginal implant—secured via spikes through the obturator muscle—she received little information other than that her procedure would cure her of her incontinence.

When Cathy woke after surgery, she could not move. The nerve damage that she had sustained to her obturator muscle radiated pain through her abdomen, legs and back. Her condition was so bad that, after she was discharged, she would not allow her son to drive at more than 30mph along the bypass. She tried to call the hospital for three days and through the following week after being discharged, but never received a call back from nursing staff or doctors.

When Cathy visited her doctor, they told her that the pain might be related to her having stopped smoking at the time of her operation, and that she should try cutting out fat from her diet to help. However, at no point did any medical professional suggest that there might be a physical problem with the mesh implant. Cathy went a full five years of trying to cope with abject pain before its cause was identified as the mesh implant itself.

A routine check-up with her gynaecologist revealed that the tape was in too tight on the right-hand side and, as such, was constantly tearing at her obturator muscle. On seeking the advice of her surgeon, she received the devastating news that, because tissue had grown around it, the implant could not be removed without further significant nerve damage—imagine her horror at receiving that news.

Had someone taken her call at the hospital in the days after her operation, a reversal or correction could perhaps have been performed then and there. Let us consider that she, like several others, had been told at the time of surgery that mesh plastic would simply melt away over time.

Once the cause of Cathy’s pain was identified as the physical obstruction inside her, she was heavily medicated with gabapentin, which had such a soporific effect on her daily life that it forced her to retire from the job that she loved long before she had planned to do so. Cathy’s implant has had a significant impact on her mobility, intimacy with her partner and mental health, and has devastated her quality of life. She is left with a Hobson’s choice of making do or having the implant removed, with potentially far greater nerve damage and resulting pain.

She is far from alone in feeling that way—we have heard countless other cases that are like hers. I am saddened that it has taken us so long just to get to the point to reimburse those people who have taken the step to have harmful mesh removed privately. Even the bill will not give back to my constituent the quality and the period of life that she has lost.

I do not want to downplay the importance of the bill; it is important and we will support it. The financial reimbursement is an essential part of regaining the trust of so many victims of that scandal and recognising its harm. Carol Mochan was absolutely right to say that the bill sends an important signal to those mesh survivors that we see them, hear them and recognise what has been done to them.

Members have recognised that the uncertainty around who might be eligible for reimbursement as a result of the bill is a cause of concern. We are also concerned that the bill might impact only a limited number of people. We will work to improve the bill as it goes through the Parliament.

I want to explore whether the reimbursement could be extended to survivors of hernia mesh removal who paid for the procedure privately. I might have a meeting offline with the cabinet secretary, if he is willing, as I raised with his predecessors a number of cases of people in equally debilitating pain as a result of hernia mesh implants, which at present are not in the scope of the bill. I do not imagine that to be a huge number of people, but the issues are much the same.

We have to offer more than warm words but, until now, that is all that we have been able to do. It is fair to say that we have talked about the matter for years—we have known about Dr Veronikis for years. The removal procedures have only recently started to take place, and it is a shame that we have managed to do only 33. Although I recognise the limitations that we face, I hope that we can increase the rate at which we help people.

To the survivors of the scandal, I say that what you have been through is an outrage. No one should have to suffer so much physical or emotional pain because of a procedure that they were reassured would increase quality of life. You deserve so much more, and I am so sorry that the Governments that were supposed to protect you have successively let you down.

This is one of the worst medical scandals in the history of this country. We must offer more and we must do so urgently.

15:35  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
I remind members of the Covid-related measures that are in place. Face coverings should be worn when moving around the chamber and across the Holyrood campus...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the Transvaginal Mesh Removal (Cost Reimbursement) (Scotland) Bill. I would like first to thank the Health, Sport and So...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Gillian Martin to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 15:06
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Over the years, we have all heard countless accounts of the complications of transvaginal mesh surgery and its lifelong effects, even after the mesh has been...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I very much welcome Gillian Martin’s powerful speech in support of the bill. With regard to the end date, did the committee consider whether the date of com...
Gillian Martin SNP
I guess that that is implicit in what I have just said, because there is a gap. The committee has not specified what we think the date should be, but we have...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I point members to my declaration of interests; I am a practising doctor. It is not every day that parties on opposite sides of the chamber see eye to eye, ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I want to put on the record a clarification. Dr Gulhane referred to an amount of money per surgery. He is right to say that we specify amounts in the financi...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
When the health secretary came to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, he made it clear that there will be no cap; I did not intend to imply that the...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my fellow members of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, who are all here today, for their work on the bill over recent weeks. I welcome th...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
It gives me great pleasure to speak for the Liberal Democrats in support of the bill’s general principles at stage 1. When it comes to domestic health scanda...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the bill and pay tribute to everyone who has campaigned on the issue, including, most importantly, the women who have campaigned for justice. I tha...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
As a new member, I am pleased to be able to speak in this debate about what is a short but landmark piece of legislation. Although it is a bill that has take...
David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) SNP
I was a member of the Public Petitions Committee back in 2014, when the issue of polypropylene mesh medical devices was brought to the committee’s attention ...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to speak in the debate and I welcome the bill. I congratulate all those who have campaigned for the legislation over such a long time. I als...
Evelyn Tweed (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am pleased to take part in this debate, and I welcome the cross-party support for the bill’s ge...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am pleased to speak in support of the bill at stage 1. I thank all the women who came to give ...
Kaukab Stewart (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I thank the cabinet secretary and the members of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for their work in introducing the bill. More than anyone, though...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am honoured to be contributing to the debate. It is important that the women who were forced to seek private arrangements to remove transvaginal mesh are r...
Siobhian Brown (Ayr) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the bill before Parliament today. “I have been attempting to navigate through the absolute nightmare of living with mesh for 12 years.” That is ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
Before calling the final speaker in the open debate, I remind members that anybody who has contributed to the debate needs to be in the chamber for the closi...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I extend my thanks to the committee for its report. I, too, want to put on record my admiration for the women who have fought with dignity and determination ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the closing speeches. I note that Gillian Mackay is not present in the chamber, and I expect an explanation for that in due course. 16:27
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In closing for Scottish Labour, I begin by reflecting the strong consensus that we have heard in the debate. Stage 1 of the bill marks a significant mileston...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Given the time in hand, I invite Jackson Carlaw to wind up for a generous seven minutes. 16:33
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I genuinely feel considerable pride in our Parliament this afternoon. In contributing to the debate, I am not without some emo...
Gillian Martin SNP
Does the member think that that points to a wider issue about women not being believed when they come forward with health issues? Does he agree that we shoul...
Jackson Carlaw Con
I absolutely do. In the previous session, I sat in a meeting of the Public Petitions Committee—along with David Torrance, I think—and listened to one special...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I have seen Dr Veronikis’s response. We actually had a helpful response from him recently, so progress is being made. I can give an absolute assurance on two...
Jackson Carlaw Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for that assurance. We must ensure that the delivery of that assurance follows the delivery of the bill. I thank Gillian Marti...