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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 24 November 2021

24 Nov 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Transvaginal Mesh Removal (Cost Reimbursement) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Martin, Gillian SNP Aberdeenshire East Watch on SPTV

Over the years, we have all heard countless accounts of the complications of transvaginal mesh surgery and its lifelong effects, even after the mesh has been fully or partially removed, as well as countless accounts of physical damage and countless accounts of psychological trauma. Many women have had countless years of suffering, and, for many, that suffering will be experienced for years to come.

As the convener of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am pleased to speak today on our report on the Transvaginal Mesh Removal (Cost Reimbursement) (Scotland) Bill.

I want to say up front that the bill could not, and does not, undo the physical or psychological trauma that the women have faced and continue to face as a result of mesh complications. The bill has been introduced for a specific purpose, as the cabinet secretary has just outlined. We, as a committee, support that purpose, which is to reimburse individuals who have paid to have transvaginal mesh removed from their body in private healthcare settings.

It is apparent to anyone who has listened to those who have been affected that, as a result of their experiences, the women have lost trust in a system that is meant to care for them. Those women have not experienced the compassion, choice and control that they should be entitled to expect from the system. In the past, they have not felt empowered to discuss the complications or treatment options, or to be actively involved in decisions about their care. As a result of that, many have gone down the road of seeking private treatment.

We have heard that the Scottish Government is taking steps to ensure that, in the future, women will have that choice in and control over their care, including the option of having transvaginal mesh removal surgery undertaken by independent providers. We welcome that.

The key principle of the bill is fairness for all individuals in relation to transvaginal mesh removal services in Scotland, and the committee considers that it is unfair and unreasonable to expect women who have already had surgery to meet the financial cost of that surgery themselves, given that that option will be available to women free of charge in the future. The bill seeks to rectify that unfairness. The committee supports that intent and, more broadly, we support the general principles that underlie the bill.

Our report concentrates on areas in which we think that the bill, as drafted, might need to be clarified to make sure that it achieves that fairness for the women who are affected. In some areas, we have made suggestions to strengthen that intent.

Before going into detail about the committee’s recommendations, I will take a moment to thank all those who assisted us in our scrutiny—those who responded to our calls for views and those who gave evidence in person or online. I would particularly like to thank the women who spoke to us about their experiences of transvaginal mesh complications in a private session that was facilitated by the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland. We are very grateful to them, and we are in absolutely no doubt about how difficult it must be to have to recount those experiences time and again.

Evidence from that meeting and following our call for views suggests that there are still areas of uncertainty around the bill that continue to be a source of anxiety. In particular, our report recommends that greater clarity is needed around the residency criteria that are set out in the bill. As it stands, women who were not resident in Scotland at the time of their original mesh surgery but who lived here when their mesh removal surgery was arranged would be eligible for reimbursement. In contrast, women who were resident in Scotland at the time of their original surgery, when the mesh was put into their bodies, but who lived elsewhere when they arranged mesh removal surgery would not be eligible.

The Scottish Government has told us that it has not received any correspondence from women in that situation, but it acknowledges that the number of women who may ultimately apply for reimbursement under the bill is unknown. It is reasonable to assume that the Scottish Government might not have heard from everyone who might be covered by the bill. It is also reasonable to assume that some women who are affected do not yet know about the bill. The committee believes that, if it means that even just one more woman can be helped, the bill should be amended to include all those women who are seeking reimbursement for mesh removal surgery who originally had their mesh implanted by the NHS in Scotland irrespective of where they were living when that mesh removal surgery was arranged.

The committee also heard from a number of women who described themselves as the in-betweeners—women who are in the process of arranging treatment privately or who?are currently waiting?for their private surgery to take place. The introduction of the bill has caused some confusion and concern among those women. In short, they are unsure whether they will be eligible for reimbursement. Additional costs from travel restrictions and delays imposed by the Covid-19 pandemic have added to that anxiety. They want reassurance that their?costs will be reimbursed if the bill is passed.

According to the bill, a cut-off date for qualification for reimbursement will be specified in the details of the scheme. We are told that that date is likely to be 12 July 2021. The Scottish Government has suggested that that is a date on which individuals could reasonably be expected to have been aware of the availability of the new specialist mesh service as the preferred route for mesh removal surgery. However, there is a gap between 12 July, when the outcome of the procurement exercise for that service was announced, and the conclusion of contracts with independent providers, which remain under negotiation.

There is a risk that a relatively small number of women will fall through that gap and therefore be judged ineligible for reimbursement. The committee does not think that it is fair that those individuals should be obliged to cover the cost of their surgery themselves. We thank the cabinet secretary for indicating today, and when he appeared before the committee, that he is willing to look at that. We understand that there cannot be an open-ended period and that there must be an end date, but we would like the proposed end date to be reviewed, given what I have just said.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
I remind members of the Covid-related measures that are in place. Face coverings should be worn when moving around the chamber and across the Holyrood campus...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the Transvaginal Mesh Removal (Cost Reimbursement) (Scotland) Bill. I would like first to thank the Health, Sport and So...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Gillian Martin to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 15:06
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Over the years, we have all heard countless accounts of the complications of transvaginal mesh surgery and its lifelong effects, even after the mesh has been...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I very much welcome Gillian Martin’s powerful speech in support of the bill. With regard to the end date, did the committee consider whether the date of com...
Gillian Martin SNP
I guess that that is implicit in what I have just said, because there is a gap. The committee has not specified what we think the date should be, but we have...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I point members to my declaration of interests; I am a practising doctor. It is not every day that parties on opposite sides of the chamber see eye to eye, ...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I want to put on the record a clarification. Dr Gulhane referred to an amount of money per surgery. He is right to say that we specify amounts in the financi...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
When the health secretary came to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, he made it clear that there will be no cap; I did not intend to imply that the...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my fellow members of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, who are all here today, for their work on the bill over recent weeks. I welcome th...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
It gives me great pleasure to speak for the Liberal Democrats in support of the bill’s general principles at stage 1. When it comes to domestic health scanda...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the bill and pay tribute to everyone who has campaigned on the issue, including, most importantly, the women who have campaigned for justice. I tha...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
As a new member, I am pleased to be able to speak in this debate about what is a short but landmark piece of legislation. Although it is a bill that has take...
David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) SNP
I was a member of the Public Petitions Committee back in 2014, when the issue of polypropylene mesh medical devices was brought to the committee’s attention ...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to speak in the debate and I welcome the bill. I congratulate all those who have campaigned for the legislation over such a long time. I als...
Evelyn Tweed (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am pleased to take part in this debate, and I welcome the cross-party support for the bill’s ge...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am pleased to speak in support of the bill at stage 1. I thank all the women who came to give ...
Kaukab Stewart (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I thank the cabinet secretary and the members of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for their work in introducing the bill. More than anyone, though...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am honoured to be contributing to the debate. It is important that the women who were forced to seek private arrangements to remove transvaginal mesh are r...
Siobhian Brown (Ayr) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the bill before Parliament today. “I have been attempting to navigate through the absolute nightmare of living with mesh for 12 years.” That is ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
Before calling the final speaker in the open debate, I remind members that anybody who has contributed to the debate needs to be in the chamber for the closi...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I extend my thanks to the committee for its report. I, too, want to put on record my admiration for the women who have fought with dignity and determination ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the closing speeches. I note that Gillian Mackay is not present in the chamber, and I expect an explanation for that in due course. 16:27
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In closing for Scottish Labour, I begin by reflecting the strong consensus that we have heard in the debate. Stage 1 of the bill marks a significant mileston...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Given the time in hand, I invite Jackson Carlaw to wind up for a generous seven minutes. 16:33
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I genuinely feel considerable pride in our Parliament this afternoon. In contributing to the debate, I am not without some emo...
Gillian Martin SNP
Does the member think that that points to a wider issue about women not being believed when they come forward with health issues? Does he agree that we shoul...
Jackson Carlaw Con
I absolutely do. In the previous session, I sat in a meeting of the Public Petitions Committee—along with David Torrance, I think—and listened to one special...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I have seen Dr Veronikis’s response. We actually had a helpful response from him recently, so progress is being made. I can give an absolute assurance on two...
Jackson Carlaw Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for that assurance. We must ensure that the delivery of that assurance follows the delivery of the bill. I thank Gillian Marti...