Committee
COVID-19 Recovery Committee 20 January 2022
20 Jan 2022 · S6 · COVID-19 Recovery Committee
Item of business
Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Acts Report and Subordinate Legislation
Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Requirements) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2022 (SSI 2022/6)
Professor Leitch
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I will respond briefly to question 2, and then I will answer the question on endemic status. When omicron first emerged, we simply did not know whether the rumours—let us call them that—of slightly milder disease were true. Nobody knew. However, we knew pretty quickly that booster doses of vaccines were crucial, and we were able to vaccinate, at one point, faster than any other country in the world. The omicron wave has not been as damaging as we thought that it might be, because of the combination of protections, human behaviour and vaccination, with the contribution from the virus that, in the end, it is milder than the delta version. Unpicking how much of that has been down to the virus and how much has been down to vaccination will take months, but the combination of all those things is why we have not seen omicron reach the absolute worst that we thought that it might. That is a credit to the national health service vaccination teams and to the public, who reduced their contacts appropriately, partly because we told them to and partly voluntarily. The term “endemic” is a little misunderstood. The disease that everybody suggests is endemic is flu. Endemicity is about predictability. An endemic disease is defined as one that is in an area of the world and which is relatively predictable, so we know when it is coming and what it is going to do. Endemicity says nothing about severity. Malaria is an endemic disease and kills 600,000 people a year, not here, but among the billions of people who catch it in sub-Saharan Africa and south-east Asia. Endemicity is not about ease or making it better—it is about predictability. For now, Covid is unpredictable. We do not know when the next wave is coming or whether it will be better or worse than the previous waves. The WHO will decide when the disease becomes endemic. Just now, the WHO says that it is a pandemic, and the definition of that is that every single person on earth is at risk from it. The WHO will decide when it is more predictable, which I hope will happen in 2022, although nobody knows whether it will. How Scotland and other countries choose to deal with the next year of the pandemic is the core of Murdo Fraser’s question. What do we do, and how should we react, as the disease moves into another year of being a pandemic? That is the question that the committee has been asking, and to which the Government has tried to respond, throughout the whole period. I am not sure that it is about having an intellectual conversation on pandemic versus endemic; it is about how we manage a pandemic. As we have discussed, that has global implications around genetic sequencing, and for our strategic framework, which we are refreshing—the Government will announce the results of that in the next few weeks.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Siobhian Brown)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2022 of the Covid-19 Recovery Committee. We have received apologies from Alex Rowley MSP and are joined by...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you. I have no relevant interests to declare.
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. Brian Whittle is running slightly late, so he will be joining us later. This morning, we will take evidence from the Scottish Government on the ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery (John Swinney)
SNP
Thank you, convener. I am grateful to the committee for the opportunity to discuss a number of matters, including the updates to the Parliament on Covid-19. ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. We are short of time, so I ask for concise questions and answers. Thankfully, the omicron wave is decreasing, although we are cautiously aware th...
John Swinney
SNP
Professor Leitch can provide some of the epidemiological information. A huge amount of surveillance data is still available to Government. Substantial number...
Professor Jason Leitch (Scottish Government)
It is a global problem and not one that Scotland can solve alone. We discovered omicron because a large outbreak in a region of South Africa looked different...
The Convener
SNP
With the omicron variant, people are being encouraged just to do a lateral flow test rather than a PCR one and to self-isolate for the required amount of tim...
John Swinney
SNP
There should not be an issue there. Individuals who are required to self-isolate, which is the case if someone tests positive with a lateral flow device test...
The Convener
SNP
That is very helpful—thank you. We will move on to the next question.
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Good morning, cabinet secretary and colleagues. I have two questions and, given that we are short of time, I will ask them both together. Cabinet secretary,...
John Swinney
SNP
In a moment, I will ask Professor Leitch to deal with the question of epidemic and endemic, because judgment with a clear scientific basis has to be applied ...
Professor Leitch
I will respond briefly to question 2, and then I will answer the question on endemic status. When omicron first emerged, we simply did not know whether the ...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
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John Swinney
SNP
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Professor Leitch
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The Convener
SNP
We move on to questions from John Mason. If we have enough time at the end, I will come back to members for supplementary questions.
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
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John Swinney
SNP
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John Mason
SNP
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John Swinney
SNP
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John Mason
SNP
I have a final factual question. There has been talk about charging for LFTs. What is the cost of an LFT?
John Swinney
SNP
The last cost that I saw was something of the order of £3 per test, but I stand to be corrected by one of my officials.
Professor Leitch
That is also my understanding. I think that the cabinet secretary saw the same briefing that I saw. The cost was about £3 per test. That is a calculation fro...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
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John Swinney
SNP
I contend that the relevant data is clearly available because Mr Whittle has just recounted it to me. The collection of such data enables us to see comparati...
Brian Whittle
Con
I understand that the Government has to balance a lot of different factors. However, we know from the numbers that people who are in hospital with Covid or w...
John Swinney
SNP
Essentially, that is reconciled through the four harms framework that I discussed in my answers to John Mason. I will remind the committee of the details of ...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
SNP
I have two questions. One is very narrow, which I will probably direct—Inaudible.. Deputy First Minister, there are lots of reports in this morning’s newspa...
John Swinney
SNP
On Mr Fairlie’s first question, the Scottish Government’s position on the wearing of face coverings—whether in crowded public places, on public transport or ...