Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 15 December 2021
15 Dec 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Ending the Not Proven Verdict
Christine Grahame reminds me that it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
For example, the accused might be innocent or they might be guilty but the Crown has failed to prove its case. In that kind of situation, is it really right or honest to say that that person is not guilty? Would it not be better and more honest to say that the case is not proven?
I understand that there is some support among legal professionals for the verdicts to be proven and not proven, but I accept that that is currently a minority view and the trend is towards dropping not proven. My purpose is really just to ask that all options be considered and that we do not immediately jump to conclusions about which verdict should be dropped.
Again, I welcome the consultation and I encourage as many people as possible to take part in it. I hope that the Government, Jamie Greene, the Opposition and the whole Parliament will listen to the responses that come in with genuinely open minds.
17:22In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
I remind members of the Covid-related measures that are in place and that face coverings should be worn when moving around the chamber and across the Holyroo...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
There is nobody on the Government front bench.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You are quite right: there is no one on the Government front bench. There is now. Thank you. 16:51
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am pleased and privileged to use our precious commodity of Opposition business to have today’s debate. Interruption. Apologies, but may I continue? The de...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted that the member is trolling the archives for my words of wisdom, but he will also recall that, at the time, I opposed the abolition of corrobo...
Jamie Greene
Con
I am glad that the member raises that issue, and I will cover that point explicitly in my comments. I hope that there is consensus in the chamber on the nee...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans (Keith Brown)
SNP
Just to be clear, I will move the amendment in my name and I will also support the Labour Party’s amendment. I will not support the motion from Jamie Greene....
Jamie Greene
Con
The cabinet secretary seems to be going to great lengths to excuse the status quo. He is the fourth justice secretary to promise action on the issue. What co...
Keith Brown
SNP
I think that it is really wrong for Jamie Greene to characterise what I have said up to this point as defending the status quo. I am laying out the reasons w...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I warmly welcome the debate, and I will move the amendment in the name of Pauline McNeill, which says that we recognise that many survivors of sexual crimes ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I, too, pay tribute to campaigners such as Speak Out Survivors, Miss M and others for their courage, candour and commitment to change in order to deliver imp...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Three weeks ago, the chamber stood united to condemn violence against women. We remembered women who had had their lives cut tragically short and we promised...
Keith Brown
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Meghan Gallacher
Con
I have only four minutes and I would like to make some progress—I am sorry. We cannot continue to ignore a justice system that favours the perpetrator over ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Like Martin Whitfield, I am a late substitute to the debate. We shall see how we get on. We have the three verdicts and the suggestion is that we move to tw...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Beyond reasonable doubt.
John Mason
SNP
Christine Grahame reminds me that it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. For example, the accused might be innocent or they might be guilty but the Cr...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I give this speech on behalf of my colleague, Claire Baker MSP, who is unable to contribute because of technical difficulties. I also take this opportunity t...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I am sorry, Ms Grahame. The member is now over time and is concluding.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
I apologise. Much is made of the lesser burden of proof in civil cases. Lady Dorrian’s report on justice responses to sexual crimes examines the way in whic...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Please conclude, Mr Whitfield.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
Under the current system, there is no evidence to support the argument that more cases going to court will result in a higher conviction rate.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, Mr Whitfield.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
More people must experience trauma but achieve no conviction—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Thank you. 17:27
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
SNP
I understand why Jamie Greene lodged his motion on behalf of his party. He is on the Criminal Justice Committee, as I am, so he has heard at first hand the h...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. The Scottish legal system takes great pride in its reputation—specifically in elements th...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
The not proven verdict, which is perhaps the most unique aspect of Scots criminal law, has split opinion through the centuries. It is easy to see how controv...
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?