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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 15 December 2021

15 Dec 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Ending the Not Proven Verdict

I am pleased and privileged to use our precious commodity of Opposition business to have today’s debate. [Interruption.] Apologies, but may I continue?

The debate is important. Tomorrow, I am launching the consultation for my member’s bill, the victims (criminal justice and fatal accident inquiries) (Scotland) bill. It is not the catchiest of titles, but contained in the bill there are a number of sensible proposals that seek to strengthen the rights of victims in Scotland, empowering them in relation to decisions that affect their daily lives and granting them wider access to information that they should already be given freely. The bill seeks to make them feel safer by ensuring that dangerous criminals stay away from them, their homes and their families.

None of the above should be controversial or seem unreasonable to us as a Parliament. I would even go as far as to say that improving the rights of victims of crime should be wholly incontrovertible and not even require a member’s bill in the first place. However, we are where we are.

When the consultation is published tomorrow, I will ask members, the Government, stakeholders and the wider public to look carefully at my proposals and respond with their views and opinions. However, there is another part to my bill, which forms the basis of my motion—our call to end the three-verdict outcome in the Scottish courts through the removal of the not proven verdict. We do that unapologetically. It was an explicit promise in our manifesto, an issue on which we have led the way and one on which we now want Parliament to finally take a stand. I cannot see why we would not want to do so.

Of course, there is opposition to the proposal—change is not always welcome, and change is not always easy. It would be the most profound overhaul of the justice system in 300 years. However, we are not alone in that position—every party went into the Scottish election promising action. It is not a new debate, which makes my point. We have been having the debate for years, for decades, for centuries. The debate goes from as far back as 1846, when the system was criticised, to as recently as 2013, when a private member’s bill to abolish the verdict was considered in the previous session of Parliament. Five years ago, Christine Grahame, who was then the convener of the Justice Committee, said:

“the not proven verdict is often deeply unsatisfactory for victims and is often no better for the accused. Like many members of the committee, I believe that the not proven verdict is on borrowed time.”—[Official Report, 25 February 2016; c 81.]

Its time has run out and now we must act.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
I remind members of the Covid-related measures that are in place and that face coverings should be worn when moving around the chamber and across the Holyroo...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
There is nobody on the Government front bench.
The Presiding Officer NPA
You are quite right: there is no one on the Government front bench. There is now. Thank you. 16:51
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased and privileged to use our precious commodity of Opposition business to have today’s debate. Interruption. Apologies, but may I continue? The de...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted that the member is trolling the archives for my words of wisdom, but he will also recall that, at the time, I opposed the abolition of corrobo...
Jamie Greene Con
I am glad that the member raises that issue, and I will cover that point explicitly in my comments. I hope that there is consensus in the chamber on the nee...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans (Keith Brown) SNP
Just to be clear, I will move the amendment in my name and I will also support the Labour Party’s amendment. I will not support the motion from Jamie Greene....
Jamie Greene Con
The cabinet secretary seems to be going to great lengths to excuse the status quo. He is the fourth justice secretary to promise action on the issue. What co...
Keith Brown SNP
I think that it is really wrong for Jamie Greene to characterise what I have said up to this point as defending the status quo. I am laying out the reasons w...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I warmly welcome the debate, and I will move the amendment in the name of Pauline McNeill, which says that we recognise that many survivors of sexual crimes ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, pay tribute to campaigners such as Speak Out Survivors, Miss M and others for their courage, candour and commitment to change in order to deliver imp...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Three weeks ago, the chamber stood united to condemn violence against women. We remembered women who had had their lives cut tragically short and we promised...
Keith Brown SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Meghan Gallacher Con
I have only four minutes and I would like to make some progress—I am sorry. We cannot continue to ignore a justice system that favours the perpetrator over ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Like Martin Whitfield, I am a late substitute to the debate. We shall see how we get on. We have the three verdicts and the suggestion is that we move to tw...
Christine Grahame SNP
Beyond reasonable doubt.
John Mason SNP
Christine Grahame reminds me that it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. For example, the accused might be innocent or they might be guilty but the Cr...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I give this speech on behalf of my colleague, Claire Baker MSP, who is unable to contribute because of technical difficulties. I also take this opportunity t...
Christine Grahame SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Presiding Officer NPA
I am sorry, Ms Grahame. The member is now over time and is concluding.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I apologise. Much is made of the lesser burden of proof in civil cases. Lady Dorrian’s report on justice responses to sexual crimes examines the way in whic...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Please conclude, Mr Whitfield.
Martin Whitfield Lab
Under the current system, there is no evidence to support the argument that more cases going to court will result in a higher conviction rate.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Mr Whitfield.
Martin Whitfield Lab
More people must experience trauma but achieve no conviction—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. 17:27
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I understand why Jamie Greene lodged his motion on behalf of his party. He is on the Criminal Justice Committee, as I am, so he has heard at first hand the h...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. The Scottish legal system takes great pride in its reputation—specifically in elements th...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
The not proven verdict, which is perhaps the most unique aspect of Scots criminal law, has split opinion through the centuries. It is easy to see how controv...
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?