Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 01 December 2021
01 Dec 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Ventilation in Schools
I thank Michael Marra for being so assiduous on the issue of ventilation in schools. Today’s debate will help us to flush out many of the issues at the heart of the discussion on ventilation. Our knowledge and understanding of the virus have evolved over time, and the Government’s response has evolved, too. The Government’s approach on ventilation must also evolve, because the current one-size-fits-all approach is just not good enough.
Given that we have a range of school buildings—from Victorian ones and 1960s builds to modern designs—the performance of each school differs, but the Government’s policy is very limited. Using CO2 monitors and opening windows are the only tools in the box. The Government’s new business fund for ventilation permits businesses to make applications for the purchase of mechanical air purifiers. The cabinet secretary might wish to tell us the science that backs up the Government’s support for that grant funding, while it dismisses such devices for schools. I would be very interested to hear what the cabinet secretary has to say on that.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-02326, in the name of Michael Marra, on action on active ventilation in schools. Members who wish to spea...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to bring this important debate to the chamber today. On examination of the facts and the overwhelming weight of the data, Labour considers the a...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
Clearly, local authorities are using different monitors, so they will have different criteria, but certainly the expert advice is that a CO2 concentration of...
Michael Marra
Lab
That is a wide variety—between 800 and 1,500 parts per million. One could pick a figure in between, as many councils have had to do. There was no answer in t...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Shirley-Anne Somerville)
SNP
The safety of children and young people, and, indeed, all education staff remains our absolute overriding priority, particularly as we approach winter. Venti...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Con
Is the cabinet secretary confident that, where stubbornly high levels have been identified, action has been taken locally? Has she been reassured?
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
We continue to seek and receive reassurances. It was reassuring to receive reports that only in relatively few cases were the recommended CO2 levels exceeded...
Michael Marra
Lab
The minister said on the record that “very limited” action would be taken. Essentially, the recommendation is to open a window. Does she expect us to be in s...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
As I said, what I have done and will continue to do is listen to the experts. I encourage Michael Marra to read in great detail the expert evidence that was ...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Con
I am grateful to my Labour colleague Michael Marra for bringing this debate to the chamber and giving Parliament the time to discuss the issue. We will suppo...
Michael Marra
Lab
Will the member reflect on the question that I put to the cabinet secretary, which was whether we will be in this situation next year? With regard to the sch...
Oliver Mundell
Con
I agree with that point. The sad thing, which I was going to come to later, is that we should not be in that position this year, either. I am not a “Game of ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
I suggest that what might also give reassurance to parents, staff and young people is if we listen to the expert advice that is given to us by, for example, ...
Oliver Mundell
Con
My understanding of the advice is that no one has said that those measures would not be an improvement; they have said that they are not the full answer. The...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I thank Michael Marra for being so assiduous on the issue of ventilation in schools. Today’s debate will help us to flush out many of the issues at the heart...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
We have made it clear that, if areas in schools cannot be ventilated appropriately, they should not be used, or alternative methods can be used. I said that ...
Willie Rennie
LD
The science therefore does support the use of air purifiers, despite the cabinet secretary’s constant dismissals. The message to schools is clear: their opti...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
Please close, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie
LD
We, too, have a duty to go further. We know that the omicron variant is posing greater threats to us, so the Scottish Government needs to step up, evolve its...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
We are now almost two years into the pandemic, yet the only advice that we can offer children and teachers who are freezing in school is to wear outdoor clot...
Kaukab Stewart (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
There can be no question but that ensuring the safety of children and young people, as well as all educational staff, is of paramount importance to everyone ...
Michael Marra
Lab
The same evidence from the NASUWT said that CO2 monitors are not available in many classrooms. They are held centrally and appear occasionally. What kind of ...
Kaukab Stewart
SNP
I thank Michael Marra for that question. I was about to go on. I have already said that there is excellent good practice. Councils need to share that best pr...
Oliver Mundell
Con
How does Kaukab Stewart explain to my constituents in Dumfries who are sat right now in the high school why, when her Government has been in power for 14 yea...
Kaukab Stewart
SNP
I can remember standing at a hustings 20 years ago, talking about the private finance initiative. I was a teacher and I was accused of trying to take away ne...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Please could you close, Ms Stewart?
Kaukab Stewart
SNP
I will. I have spoken to colleagues, teachers and headteachers alike, and I have to say that, in the majority of cases, I concur that mitigations and adapta...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, Ms Stewart.
Kaukab Stewart
SNP
I thank our colleagues in the education sector for their continuing hard work. 16:28
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am grateful for the chance to contribute to the debate. The unmistakeable truth is that, although we have made good progress in our battle against the pand...