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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 01 December 2021

01 Dec 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Ventilation in Schools

The safety of children and young people, and, indeed, all education staff remains our absolute overriding priority, particularly as we approach winter. Ventilation is a key line of defence, along with vaccination, face coverings, good hand hygiene, regular testing and surveillance. When the omicron variant is causing great concern here and around the world, we must be vigilant and ready to take any action that is necessary.

It is true that, as the motion sets out, case rates among under-15s remain high. To minimise disruption to learning and teaching, it is vital to make best use of all the mitigations that we know are effective.

As Michael Marra’s motion highlights, ensuring that all learning and teaching spaces are adequately ventilated is vital—that much we agree with. Ventilation remains one of the most important ways of reducing the risk of airborne Covid transmission and keeping our schools as safe as possible. That is why the Scottish Government has worked closely throughout the pandemic with the advisory sub-group on education and children’s issues, expert bodies such as the Health and Safety Executive and local authorities to put in place and update national guidance on ventilation and CO2 monitoring in schools.

We have allocated significant funding—not just the £10 million that Michael Marra mentioned but £90 million of Covid logistics funding, which was provided earlier in the pandemic and included support that many local authorities used to improve ventilation. That was added to by £10 million of support to ensure that all local authority schools and all day care of children services had access to CO2 monitoring.

About 22,000 CO2 monitors have been purchased, and all the initial CO2 assessments of learning, teaching and play spaces in Scotland are now complete. The programme of assessment was led by local authorities, with support from Scottish Government officials and the Scottish Futures Trust. They worked collaboratively to align best practice.

Wherever possible before the October break, every learning, teaching and play space had to receive an initial assessment for at least a day under normal occupancy conditions, so that readings were properly representative. The approach was to continue in line with the local authority’s monitoring strategy thereafter. That exercise was an important step forward for our understanding of ventilation across the learning estate, and we are grateful for the hard work that was put into completing the initial assessments, which drew on the criteria for acceptable CO2 levels that are set out in Scottish Government guidance.

The full operational detail about the outcome of assessments, including the number of spaces where concerns were identified, is held at a local level. I have explained that to Michael Marra in the past. However, local authorities have been asked throughout the process to provide overarching feedback on the extent to which CO2 levels have exceeded the thresholds that are set out in the guidance. As I said in my intervention, those levels align with expert advice that, in general, regular readings of 1,500 parts per million indicate a need to take action and that in areas of high aerosol generation—where, for example, physical education or loud singing is being undertaken—levels of 800 parts per million should be used as a benchmark.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-02326, in the name of Michael Marra, on action on active ventilation in schools. Members who wish to spea...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to bring this important debate to the chamber today. On examination of the facts and the overwhelming weight of the data, Labour considers the a...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Clearly, local authorities are using different monitors, so they will have different criteria, but certainly the expert advice is that a CO2 concentration of...
Michael Marra Lab
That is a wide variety—between 800 and 1,500 parts per million. One could pick a figure in between, as many councils have had to do. There was no answer in t...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
The safety of children and young people, and, indeed, all education staff remains our absolute overriding priority, particularly as we approach winter. Venti...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Is the cabinet secretary confident that, where stubbornly high levels have been identified, action has been taken locally? Has she been reassured?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
We continue to seek and receive reassurances. It was reassuring to receive reports that only in relatively few cases were the recommended CO2 levels exceeded...
Michael Marra Lab
The minister said on the record that “very limited” action would be taken. Essentially, the recommendation is to open a window. Does she expect us to be in s...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
As I said, what I have done and will continue to do is listen to the experts. I encourage Michael Marra to read in great detail the expert evidence that was ...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I am grateful to my Labour colleague Michael Marra for bringing this debate to the chamber and giving Parliament the time to discuss the issue. We will suppo...
Michael Marra Lab
Will the member reflect on the question that I put to the cabinet secretary, which was whether we will be in this situation next year? With regard to the sch...
Oliver Mundell Con
I agree with that point. The sad thing, which I was going to come to later, is that we should not be in that position this year, either. I am not a “Game of ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I suggest that what might also give reassurance to parents, staff and young people is if we listen to the expert advice that is given to us by, for example, ...
Oliver Mundell Con
My understanding of the advice is that no one has said that those measures would not be an improvement; they have said that they are not the full answer. The...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I thank Michael Marra for being so assiduous on the issue of ventilation in schools. Today’s debate will help us to flush out many of the issues at the heart...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
We have made it clear that, if areas in schools cannot be ventilated appropriately, they should not be used, or alternative methods can be used. I said that ...
Willie Rennie LD
The science therefore does support the use of air purifiers, despite the cabinet secretary’s constant dismissals. The message to schools is clear: their opti...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Please close, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
We, too, have a duty to go further. We know that the omicron variant is posing greater threats to us, so the Scottish Government needs to step up, evolve its...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
We are now almost two years into the pandemic, yet the only advice that we can offer children and teachers who are freezing in school is to wear outdoor clot...
Kaukab Stewart (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
There can be no question but that ensuring the safety of children and young people, as well as all educational staff, is of paramount importance to everyone ...
Michael Marra Lab
The same evidence from the NASUWT said that CO2 monitors are not available in many classrooms. They are held centrally and appear occasionally. What kind of ...
Kaukab Stewart SNP
I thank Michael Marra for that question. I was about to go on. I have already said that there is excellent good practice. Councils need to share that best pr...
Oliver Mundell Con
How does Kaukab Stewart explain to my constituents in Dumfries who are sat right now in the high school why, when her Government has been in power for 14 yea...
Kaukab Stewart SNP
I can remember standing at a hustings 20 years ago, talking about the private finance initiative. I was a teacher and I was accused of trying to take away ne...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Please could you close, Ms Stewart?
Kaukab Stewart SNP
I will. I have spoken to colleagues, teachers and headteachers alike, and I have to say that, in the majority of cases, I concur that mitigations and adapta...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Ms Stewart.
Kaukab Stewart SNP
I thank our colleagues in the education sector for their continuing hard work. 16:28
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the chance to contribute to the debate. The unmistakeable truth is that, although we have made good progress in our battle against the pand...