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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 04 November 2021

04 Nov 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Abortion Clinic Buffer Zones

I thank Gillian Mackay for bringing this important debate to the chamber. I also commend her for the tone that she is taking in approaching the debate. It is important to say that it does not really matter what our view on abortion is—the issue is about the fact that women making difficult decisions should not be intimidated or prevented from accessing healthcare.

I also put on record that I respect the tone and contribution of John Mason, who holds a different view. However, I ask him to consider this point. If women are looking for a sign when making a difficult decision, I hope that we can agree that that sign can never be someone screaming in a woman’s face and that it can never be a woman feeling intimated in any way. I hope that we can agree on that point.

The decision to have an abortion is not one that any woman takes lightly. There are many reasons why women want to choose that route, but that is not what the debate is about. At such a difficult time, women do not need to hear the judgment of people who do not know or understand their personal circumstances.

The Back Off Scotland campaign says that it accepts, as I do, campaigners’ right to speak out against abortion, but that those campaigners should not be allowed to target and force their views on women attending appointments. The co-founder and director of the campaign, Lucy Grieve, has said:

“We support freedom of speech and the freedom to protest. While we are all pro-choice”

in the campaign,

“we understand people have different views. But go to parliament, don’t stand outside clinics.”

She thinks that doing so is “inappropriate”, saying:

“You can’t politicise someone’s body when they are going for a legal medical procedure.”

Research by the British Pregnancy Advisory Service has found that, in the past five years, there has been an anti-abortion presence at 42 clinics in England and Wales, and that 100,000 pregnant women were subjected to anti-choice harassment in 2019 alone. Moreover, as other members have said, seven hospitals and clinics in Scotland—Aberdeen maternity hospital, Chalmers sexual health centre in Edinburgh, Ninewells hospital in Dundee, Glasgow royal infirmary, Forth Valley royal hospital in Larbert, Queen Elizabeth university hospital and the Edinburgh royal infirmary—have been targeted repeatedly since the beginning of 2017 by anti-choice groups standing outside clinic and hospital entrances and displaying signs with graphic images.

I have seen many of those graphic images. Although I have never been in this particular situation myself, I have been subjected to what I thought was totally inappropriate treatment when an anti-abortion group leafleted my entire street and neighbours with such images. I was never asked to explain my position on this matter—indeed, I think that this is the first time that I have spoken on it. I want to emphasise that I have always been concerned about the tactics of some groups that go too far. We can disagree on things, but some lines have to be drawn.

Many women have talked about feeling targeted and alone and finding the experience deeply intimidating. Gillian Mackay’s proposal for a member’s bill on buffer zones is, I think, the right approach, and I am likely to support it. It is time to recognise that it is not acceptable to harass women into making a different decision. People have the right to protest and, like everyone else here, I will stand up and enthusiastically defend that right with regard to what is a very sensitive issue. However, no one has the right to bully, harass or scream in women’s faces, and for that reason we might need to take action to protect the women who make those very difficult choices.

13:32  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
I remind members of the Covid-related measures that are in place and that face coverings should be worn when moving around the chamber and across the Holyroo...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
I open the debate by recording my sincere thanks to all those who have worked so hard on abortion clinic buffer zones, including the Back Off Scotland campai...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
I thank Gillian Mackay for securing the debate. Abortion is a legal right in Scotland; it is essential healthcare for women, and access to abortion services...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Gillian Mackay for securing this members’ business debate on such an important topic. Members of the Scottish Parliament will have differing views wh...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Gillian Mackay and the campaigners at Back Off Scotland for bringing this vital issue to the Parliament. My colleague Monica Lennon has, unfortunate...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank Gillian Mackay for bringing her motion to the chamber for debate. Women in Scotland have a fundamental right to access pregnancy healthcare ser...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I am conscious of the number of speakers who still want to contribute to the debate, so I am minded to accept a motion without notice, under rule 8.14.3, to ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I commend the exceptional quality of all speeches that have been made in the debate and praise Gillian Mackay for bringing the topic to the chamber. I also t...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I thank Gillian Mackay for bringing the debate to the chamber and for giving us the opportunity to discuss a sensitive subject. I realise that some would ar...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
John Mason SNP
It is probably better that I do not take an intervention. The tone of the debate has been good so far, so I will just carry on, if the member does not mind. ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank my colleague Gillian Mackay for bringing the motion to the Parliament and Back Off Scotland for the work that it does to protect women from harassmen...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank my colleague Gillian Mackay for lodging this important motion for debate. I echo her remarks, and those of other people, about the work that Back Off...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Gillian Mackay for bringing this important debate to the chamber. I also commend her for the tone that she is taking in approaching the debate. It is...
Emma Roddick (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
First, I point out that we are not here today to debate whether abortion should be available to people who want or need it; instead, we are debating whether ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Roddick. I call the minister to respond to the debate. Ms Todd, you have around seven minutes. 13:36
The Minister for Public Health, Women’s Health and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I thank Gillian Mackay for lodging the motion, and I thank members for their contributions to the debate. As many memb...
Emma Roddick SNP
Does the minister recognise that, as per the Back Off Scotland briefing that we received, 70 per cent of Scottish women live in a health board area in which ...
Maree Todd SNP
I recognise that, but members will be aware that our view is that byelaws are the most appropriate way to tackle the issue, when making of a byelaw can be ju...
Meghan Gallacher Con
In relation to targeted measures and byelaws, does the minister agree that groups could move to other areas if such byelaws were to be introduced for an area...
Maree Todd SNP
I am aware of that concern, which was raised with me at the meeting in September. The former Minister for Public Health, Sport and Wellbeing, Joe FitzPatric...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I am struggling to understand the circumstances in which it would be appropriate not to legislate to have a buffer zone. Could the minister explain that furt...
Maree Todd SNP
The precedent in the UK is that such measures are introduced on a local basis. We have looked at other countries’ legislation; I have mentioned before that t...