Committee
Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill Committee, 04 Feb 2003
04 Feb 2003 · S1 · Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill Committee
Item of business
Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I do not detect much of a difference between what Karen Gillon said and what the minister said. Ultimately, we all want to end up in the same place. The argument is really about the best way of achieving that. I have quite a bit of sympathy for what the minister said, but I feel that the approach that we all want is already implicit in the bill. Indeed, the explanatory notes make a clear reference to it.I seem to recollect that, when the Executive asked the Education, Culture and Sport Committee to consider whether we needed a children's commissioner, the Executive's whole approach was about the need for mainstreaming. Mainstreaming was seen as providing added value without the potential for duplicating what was already being done. However, it is implicit in a mainstreaming approach that one has to work in partnership with other organisations in order to influence them.The minister mentioned a variety of specific organisations that the commissioner might consult. Quite helpfully, she said that listing tends to date legislation quickly. However, section 6(2)(c), which covers the need to consult other organisations, is drawn widely enough not to exclude any of the organisations that the minister mentioned. Even if that were not the case, paragraph 6 of schedule 1 gives the commissioner the general power to do "anything necessary or expedient" in the course of doing his or her work. Given both those provisions, I think that there is sufficient provision within the bill to allow us all to be comfortable with it.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Kay Ullrich):
SNP
Good afternoon. We have received apologies from Jamie McGrigor. I remind everyone to turn off their mobile phones and pagers—given that I was the guilty part...
Section 1 agreed to.
Schedule 1The Commissioner for Children and Young People in Scotland
The Convener:
SNP
Amendment 8 is grouped with amendment 9.
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
I want to put on record the fact that, in considering potential Executive amendments to the bill, I have sought to work within the spirit of the bill, as dra...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
The minister said that no guidance would be provided. I can see that it is quite correct that, once the Parliament has passed the bill, neither the Parliamen...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
The Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill is a committee bill, not an Executive bill. It is for this committee to establish during the c...
The Convener:
SNP
I allowed the minister to respond to that because I thought that it might be helpful, but she will also have an opportunity to wind up the debate on this group.
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
It is obvious that amendments 8 and 9 are aimed at encouraging the commissioner to work with others to minimise duplication and overlap. Neither amendment is...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will speak in favour of the view that Karen Gillon has expressed.Amendment 8 is ambiguous and imprecise. I would accept amendment 8 if it were a genuine Ma...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
With an olive.
Irene McGugan:
SNP
That is right, but as it is not that kind of amendment, I cannot accept it.On amendment 9, Karen Gillon has comprehensively outlined the view that was taken ...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I do not detect much of a difference between what Karen Gillon said and what the minister said. Ultimately, we all want to end up in the same place. The argu...
The Convener:
SNP
The minister may wind up.
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
The discussion has been helpful. I welcome the contributions of committee members for putting on record the policy intention, although I do not think that th...
Amendment 8, by agreement, withdrawn.
The Convener:
SNP
Amendment 2 is grouped with amendment 3.
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Amendments 2 and 3 would bring the provisions for the accountable officer into line with certain other acts that have been passed by the Parliament. Paragrap...
Amendment 2 agreed to.
Amendment 3 moved—Karen Gillon—and agreed to.
Schedule 1, as amended, agreed to.
Section 2—Appointment
The Convener:
SNP
Amendment 4 is in a group on its own.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
Amendment 4 would instruct the Parliament to"consult and involve children and young people and organisations working with and for children and young people i...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
The Education, Culture and Sport Committee has been keen to involve children in our processes. We have sought to do so in a meaningful rather than tokenistic...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I have sympathy for what Donald Gorrie is trying to do, but the issue is how we can legislate for good practice. I do not believe that the measure proposed b...
Donald Gorrie:
LD
It is encouraging that so much thought has been given to the difficult process of giving young people a say in the appointment procedure, given that they wil...
Amendment 4, by agreement, withdrawn.
The Convener:
SNP
Amendment 5 is in a group on its own.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
Amendment 5 is a slightly nit-picking amendment that tries to take account of the fact that a future Parliament might be less enthusiastic about the business...