Committee
Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill Committee, 04 Feb 2003
04 Feb 2003 · S1 · Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill Committee
Item of business
Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good afternoon. We have received apologies from Jamie McGrigor. I remind everyone to turn off their mobile phones and pagers—given that I was the guilty party last time, I have already done that. I welcome Cathy Jamieson, the Minister for Education and Young People; Karen Gillon, the convener of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee; and Cathy Peattie, the deputy convener of that committee.I shall begin by advising members of the procedure for dealing with stage 2 of the bill. Members should have copies of the bill, the marshalled list of amendments and the groupings list. I ask you all to check that you have those papers. The amendments have been grouped to help debate. The order in which they appear on the marshalled list is the order in which they will be called and moved. We cannot move backwards on the marshalled list. Once we have moved on, that, I am afraid, folks, is it. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. I will call the proposer of the first amendment, who should speak to and move the amendment and may speak to any other amendments in the group. I will then call other speakers, including the minister and Karen Gillon. Following debate, I will clarify whether the member who moved the amendment still wishes to press it to a decision. If the member does not wish to do so, he or she can seek the agreement of the committee to withdraw it. If it is not withdrawn, I will put the question on the amendment. If any member disagrees, we will proceed to a division by a show of hands. It is important that members keep their hands raised until the clerk has fully recorded the vote. Only members of this committee can vote. Other members of the Parliament may speak to or move amendments, but they are not able to vote. If any member does not want to move their amendment, they should simply say, "Not moved," when the amendment is called.No amendments have been lodged to section 1.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Kay Ullrich):
SNP
Good afternoon. We have received apologies from Jamie McGrigor. I remind everyone to turn off their mobile phones and pagers—given that I was the guilty part...
Section 1 agreed to.
Schedule 1The Commissioner for Children and Young People in Scotland
The Convener:
SNP
Amendment 8 is grouped with amendment 9.
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
I want to put on record the fact that, in considering potential Executive amendments to the bill, I have sought to work within the spirit of the bill, as dra...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
The minister said that no guidance would be provided. I can see that it is quite correct that, once the Parliament has passed the bill, neither the Parliamen...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
The Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill is a committee bill, not an Executive bill. It is for this committee to establish during the c...
The Convener:
SNP
I allowed the minister to respond to that because I thought that it might be helpful, but she will also have an opportunity to wind up the debate on this group.
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
It is obvious that amendments 8 and 9 are aimed at encouraging the commissioner to work with others to minimise duplication and overlap. Neither amendment is...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will speak in favour of the view that Karen Gillon has expressed.Amendment 8 is ambiguous and imprecise. I would accept amendment 8 if it were a genuine Ma...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
With an olive.
Irene McGugan:
SNP
That is right, but as it is not that kind of amendment, I cannot accept it.On amendment 9, Karen Gillon has comprehensively outlined the view that was taken ...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I do not detect much of a difference between what Karen Gillon said and what the minister said. Ultimately, we all want to end up in the same place. The argu...
The Convener:
SNP
The minister may wind up.
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
The discussion has been helpful. I welcome the contributions of committee members for putting on record the policy intention, although I do not think that th...
Amendment 8, by agreement, withdrawn.
The Convener:
SNP
Amendment 2 is grouped with amendment 3.
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Amendments 2 and 3 would bring the provisions for the accountable officer into line with certain other acts that have been passed by the Parliament. Paragrap...
Amendment 2 agreed to.
Amendment 3 moved—Karen Gillon—and agreed to.
Schedule 1, as amended, agreed to.
Section 2—Appointment
The Convener:
SNP
Amendment 4 is in a group on its own.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
Amendment 4 would instruct the Parliament to"consult and involve children and young people and organisations working with and for children and young people i...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
The Education, Culture and Sport Committee has been keen to involve children in our processes. We have sought to do so in a meaningful rather than tokenistic...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I have sympathy for what Donald Gorrie is trying to do, but the issue is how we can legislate for good practice. I do not believe that the measure proposed b...
Donald Gorrie:
LD
It is encouraging that so much thought has been given to the difficult process of giving young people a say in the appointment procedure, given that they wil...
Amendment 4, by agreement, withdrawn.
The Convener:
SNP
Amendment 5 is in a group on its own.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
Amendment 5 is a slightly nit-picking amendment that tries to take account of the fact that a future Parliament might be less enthusiastic about the business...