Committee
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee 17 December 2020
17 Dec 2020 · S5 · Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Item of business
Scottish General Election (Coronavirus) Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 21 is simple. It connects to what I said at the outset of our discussion this morning. The bill cannot simply be about raising awareness of the ability of people to vote by post; it also needs to be about making it easier for people to apply to vote by post. I recognise and accept that, when an ERO sends out an application form, it includes a freepost return mechanism. However, my understanding from the Government and the minister is that the Electoral Commission will be sending a booklet to every household in the country that tells people about their ability to vote by post. Again, I think that it is counterintuitive that we would send that booklet to every household but not provide them in that mailing with the ability to vote directly. If we are sending every household a booklet, surely we should also be sending every household, with that booklet, an application to vote by post, a link to where they can get more applications and a free return mechanism for the application. If we fail to do that, we will be adding a layer of process instead of reducing layers of process. I will tell you what I mean by that. In political campaigns, we have probably all had a response mechanism built into the communications that we have had with the electorate, but there will be no response mechanism built in with the booklets. When someone gets a booklet, instead of them reading it, recognising that they can vote by post, completing the form and sending it straight back in, we will have to hope that they, one, open the envelope; two, read the booklet; three, get to the bit where it tells them the information about their local ERO; four, go to the website of the ERO’s office, if they have access to the internet at the time; five, find on that website how they can email the ERO; six, send the email to the ERO; seven, receive a mailing from the ERO; eight, open the mailing from the ERO; nine, read the mailing from the ERO; and ten, return the postal application to the ERO. All that adds complication and adds to process, instead of making it easier. Conversely, people can go to the website and find the ERO’s phone number and phone it. If they do so, they have to hope that the ERO answers the call—that might be difficult for the ERO to do, given the number of people we think might be trying to make contact. They might be on hold for a long time and then they will have to go through the process of the ERO responding to them with the application. The third option that someone has when they go to the ERO’s website involves printing off the form themselves, going out to get a stamp and an envelope, putting the application form in the envelope and posting it off, which means that they have to pay to get the right to vote in the election. All that is, simply, counterintuitive when we are trying to make it easier for people to vote. If they are getting a booklet through the post anyway, why not include an application form in that booklet, as well as a mechanism for them to respond? I accept that that means that applications will be sent much earlier to one central place, if we decide to do one national mailing, along with the booklets, rather than going by local authority areas. However, it could be argued that that is why we are bringing the deadline forward by two weeks, because that gives us the ability to take the required actions early enough to sort out the postal votes. Again, we can talk up the awareness campaign, but the issue is not just about making people more aware; it is about making it easier for people to exercise their democratic right, too. That is why I hope that we can get reassurance on those points from the minister and get support for my proposals. The freepost mechanism that I am talking about does not represent a massive cost to the electorate. I understand the dangers of a freepost mechanism. I have a freepost mechanism and, sometimes, I get unpopular things through it. However, that is not a reason to disenfranchise the entire electorate. Minister, I encourage you to consider my proposal carefully, and to ensure that that booklet goes out as early as possible. We are relying on every member of the electorate being fully informed. We must be honest: most of the electorate are not fully informed most of the time, and they are certainly not fully informed about the process that we are going through right now. We must make things as easy as possible for people. When they get that booklet, they must be encouraged to open it and it must then be easy for them to take the action that is required in order for them to exercise their democratic rights. I move amendment 21.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Bill Kidd)
SNP
I welcome members to the 25th meeting of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee in 2020. Our first item is stage 2 proceedings on the Sc...
The Convener
SNP
We come to the first group, on the deadline for application for postal votes. Amendment 18, in the name of Anas Sarwar, is the only amendment in the group.
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, convener, and good morning to the committee. Thank you for your time this morning. At the outset, I emphasise what I said in the stage 1 deba...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
Anas Sarwar is raising issues on which many of us have expressed concern. However, it would be more consistent with the evidence that we took at stage 1 for ...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
SNP
I have a similar concern. We are told that we are looking at a take-up of under 40 per cent and that we are preparing for take-up of 50 per cent. My concern ...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I have real concerns about that. I recognise some of the points that have been made, and I appreciate, to some extent, where Anas Sarwar is coming from. The ...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
SNP
I understand why we have a deadline for postal vote applications. It is not just about checking that the postal vote application is correct but ensuring that...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con)
Con
Thank you, convener. I agree with Patrick Harvie on this. Two issues are being conflated, and section 3 should remain, for the reasons that we heard in evide...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
The conservative nature of what is being said—that we simply cannot organise this, it is all so difficult and we do not have the resources—is depressing. A c...
The Convener
SNP
Jamie Halcro Johnston can come in quickly—I was prompted by hearing Neil Findlay say that people were being conservative at the moment.
Jamie Halcro Johnston
Con
I am not sure whether we can intervene at this stage. I am sure that the member will recognise that there will be potential bumps along the road, whatever re...
The Convener
SNP
Would the minister like to respond?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Graeme Dey)
SNP
Yes. There is a lot to respond to. What we have heard is an illustration of why amendment 18 is useful in so far as it provokes discussion. As you might ima...
The Convener
SNP
I call Anas Sarwar to wind up and press or withdraw amendment 18.
Anas Sarwar
Lab
I will pick up on a few points. I think that Neil Findlay is right that it seems as if we have a “can’t do” attitude to some of that, rather than a “can do” ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2, 3, 19 and 20.
Graeme Dey
SNP
Section 4 sets out the requirements for the report that the Scottish ministers are obliged to publish after the new deadline for postal vote applications. Th...
Anas Sarwar
Lab
I am happy to work with the minister on his suggested reworking of amendment 19 for stage 3. I think—and hope—that we both want the same outcome from the ame...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Amendment 20 would require ministers to report on the number of electors who have not applied for a postal vote by 7 April 2021, which is a month before the ...
Patrick Harvie
Green
I am pleased that the Government seems willing to work with Anas Sarwar on a replacement for his amendment 19. When I read the amendment, its intention seeme...
The Convener
SNP
I ask the minister to wind up.
Graeme Dey
SNP
First, I thank Anas Sarwar for his constructive approach on amendment 19. The point has been made that the number of electors—the people who are registered...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 20 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab) Against Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Gree...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 20 disagreed to. Amendment 3 moved—Graeme Dey—and agreed to. Section 4, as amend...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 21, on the return of postal vote to be free of charge, is in a group on its own.
Anas Sarwar
Lab
Amendment 21 is simple. It connects to what I said at the outset of our discussion this morning. The bill cannot simply be about raising awareness of the abi...
Patrick Harvie
Green
I feel a little bit the same about this amendment as I felt about Anas Sarwar’s amendment 19, in that it raises important issues and is addressing something ...
Neil Findlay
Lab
This is a test of how serious we are about opening up voting to as many people as possible. Anas Sarwar eloquently explained all the steps that someone must ...
Jamie Halcro Johnston
Con
I recognise some of the points that Anas Sarwar made, but I am still slightly unconvinced. He highlighted quite a long list of barriers, but I am not sure ho...