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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 10 June 2021

10 Jun 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Justice System

I certainly accept that there are mitigating circumstances in some instances, but that emphasises the importance of keeping the families of victims informed throughout the process. I do not think that even that has necessarily happened.

That speaks to a system that is broken. It is difficult to imagine the pain and frustration that loved ones must feel when such tragedy is followed by such a long silence. Scottish Liberal Democrats want a full independent review to consider whether the FAI system should be removed as a Crown Office responsibility. Assurances from the Scottish Government and Lord Advocate and promises of extra funding to fix the problems have simply failed to deliver the change that is required.

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, a distinct service handles such inquiries; it performs an independent challenge function that keeps things moving. My amendment calls for a review to consider that and other options for kick-starting reform of the checks and balances in our justice system.

A review would also open up an opportunity to reflect on whether the Lord Advocate’s role as both a prosecutor and the Government’s main legal adviser is appropriate. That is not a new question, but the apparent conflict of interests between those duties came into sharper focus—and came in for sharper criticism—in the later months of the previous session of Parliament. Separate positions, with an independent director of prosecutions to run the COPFS, could bring focus to the task of recovery in justice and, with that, a healthier separation of powers. Even the impression of a conflict of interests risks undermining the integrity of such an important role. I raised that with the First Minister last month, and I would welcome more detail from the cabinet secretary on the Government’s plans for a review.

I am painfully aware of the many other issues that I have not been able to touch on, not least offender management and prisons. I may turn to them in my closing remarks. Our prisons are full to overflowing and Scotland’s rate of incarceration is shameful—it is higher than those of almost every other country in Europe. No less shameful are the conditions in which many of those prisoners are being held. Cells built by the Victorians for one are being used to house two, and experts question whether that is compliant with human rights law. Moreover, a quarter of the people who are being held have not even been convicted of a crime. The remand population is completely out of control.

I am glad that the Government’s motion speaks of transformation, and I welcome the amendments in the names of Pauline McNeill and Maggie Chapman. I hope that there will be a genuine willingness to take the steps that are necessary to deliver the transformation that we need to see in our justice system.

I move amendment S6M-00294.2, to insert at end:

“; considers that the system of fatal accident inquiries (FAIs) continues to fail families and prevents lessons that could save lives being learned; and believes that reform is necessary, and calls for this to be informed by an independent expert review with a remit to include considering the options for removing FAIs from the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service's responsibilities altogether.”

References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-00294, in the name of Keith Brown, on justice: recover, renew, transform. 14:28
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Keith Brown) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to consider some of the most important challenges that our justice system faces. I want to use the time to build on my rece...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Could the proposed new coronavirus legislation that the Government wants to introduce, and the powers that would then exist, lead to people on remand staying...
Keith Brown SNP
To be honest, I am not sure about the connection that the member makes between the powers in the coronavirus legislation and the extension of remand, but I a...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
We have discussed the issue before, but when we carried out the reform that extended sheriff court sentencing powers to five years, it was always intended th...
Keith Brown SNP
We have discussed the issue previously, and Pauline McNeill will know that officials were on that call. Although I am happy to come back to her with a fuller...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary be addressing policing at any point? I ask because there was a good question at First Minister’s question time today about body-wo...
Keith Brown SNP
I heard and understood the First Minister’s response earlier. We are willing to investigate the matter. I am sure that Liam Kerr is aware that there are a nu...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am very pleased to open for the Scottish Conservatives in my first justice debate. I took on the education brief just a month before the pandemic hit, and ...
Keith Brown SNP
I am more than willing to engage in that discussion. The member will have heard what I said about a victims commissioner and additional trauma support for vi...
Jamie Greene Con
They are welcome changes, but they do not go far enough or fast enough. We go back to November 2019 when justice secretary at the time, Humza Yousaf, stated ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans, and the Minister for Community Safety, Ash Denham, for meeting me yesterday. I hope that we can conti...
Keith Brown SNP
I thank the member for her challenge, but I am sure that she knows that decisions on investigations are for the investigatory authorities. However, in her ow...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I appreciate that. Talking about the prime suspect in the case, investigative journalist Sam Poling said that “All the evidence I’ve seen suggests this man...
Keith Brown SNP
That is what the courts service and the figures say that the date will be. Yesterday, I made the point that it should be down to us all to see whether we can...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I acknowledge that point—let us see what progress we can make. Like Jamie Greene, I want to make a point about the scarcity of legal aid, which has driven m...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Would you bring your remarks to a close, please?
Pauline McNeill Lab
Sorry, Presiding Officer. I was told that I had nine minutes to speak.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are down for eight.
Pauline McNeill Lab
I will finish on this point. When it comes to decision time, it would be helpful for us to know what the Green amendment means by “institutional violence”, ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I express my heartfelt thanks to all those who have been involved in supporting survivors and victims of all forms of violence throughout the pandemic. As r...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I welcome the cabinet secretary, Jamie Greene and Maggie Chapman to their new roles and Pauline McNeill back to her old stomping ground. She will find that m...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I am not defending extraordinary delays, but does the member accept that there sometimes has to be a health and safety inquiry or an aerospace inquiry that w...
Liam McArthur LD
I certainly accept that there are mitigating circumstances in some instances, but that emphasises the importance of keeping the families of victims informed ...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
We move to the open debate. Members who wish to participate might want to ensure that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. 15:15
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I plan to address two areas in this short speech. First, I commend the Scottish Government’s commitment to creating a register of interests for members of t...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I first wish good luck to everybody who is delivering their maiden speech today. I know how it feels; I was very proud to stand here last week and deliver mi...
Keith Brown SNP
Can I answer the question?
Pam Gosal Con
I will hold on because I am hoping that the cabinet secretary will respond to the questions when he is summing up. I will get on with some of the words I hav...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Before I start my speech, I say that Pam Gosal asked an awful lot of questions in her speech, but was not prepared to listen to answers—which seems to be ver...