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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 10 June 2021

10 Jun 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Justice System

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans, and the Minister for Community Safety, Ash Denham, for meeting me yesterday. I hope that we can continue to work in that fashion. As is Jamie Greene for the Conservatives, I am delighted to lead for Scottish Labour on the justice brief in the new session. I am also delighted to be joined by Katy Clark, who will bring her knowledge and passion to the brief, and I look forward to hearing her first speech later today.

As I was saying to the cabinet secretary only last week, it has been a long while since I have had any involvement in justice issues. I served as convener of the Justice Committee what seems like a century ago and presided over the internationally renowned fingerprint evidence inquiry. I have a lot of catching up to do, so please bear that in mind.

I want to take an approach similar to that which Jamie Greene outlined, and that is to find common ground with the Scottish Government and the other parties to work to make a difference to the everyday experiences of victims in our system, to apply human rights and fairness in sentencing and in our prisons, and to recognise the work of Police Scotland but to ensure accountability for the decisions that the police make—not just in the tragic case of Sheku Bayoh, who died in custody. We desperately need answers on that case but, in all cases, we need accountability.

I do not understand why the previous cabinet secretary did not stand up for police officers on the front line in relation to early vaccination. We know that 40 officers caught the virus after policing public disorder in Glasgow only a few weeks ago.

Scottish Labour recognises the importance of a progressive justice system, with alternatives to custody and investment in community service and other alternatives. There is an urgent need to tackle the backlog of cases that has left victims waiting longer for justice. We also need to ensure that our courts are not overusing remand sentencing. The practice is putting pressure on already overcrowded prisons and we need to remember that people on remand are not convicted prisoners. A recent report shows that almost half of young adult prisoners aged 16 to 20 are on remand and we need an answer as to why so many young offenders are in custody awaiting trial.

A central theme of my work in the role will be to tackle violence against women in our society and that is why I particularly welcome the contribution of Ash Denham, who will be doing very serious work on that. Like everywhere in the world, violence against women and girls is widespread in Scotland and at least one in five women in Scotland will experience domestic abuse in her lifetime. On average, four rapes are reported per day, but the crime is chronically underreported. We have said many times in the Parliament that those figures mask the true extent of sexual violence.

I am also pleased to work with Rhoda Grant, who has done work on violence against women and who will close the debate for Labour.

If members need to be convinced of the importance of that work—after the high-profile cases of Sarah Everard, Libby Squire, Bibaa Henry, Nicole Smallman, the elderly lady Esther Brown, who was raped and killed in her flat in Woodlands in Glasgow last Tuesday, and many other women—they should listen to the eight-part podcast by Sam Poling on BBC Scotland, “Who Killed Emma?” Emma Caldwell was murdered 16 years ago and her body was found in woods near Roberton in South Lanarkshire. The podcast includes the testimony of the women who knew Emma and were working in Glasgow’s red light area, as it was known at the time, and who say that they were regularly assaulted and raped by men, but that complaints were not taken seriously.

I believe that any attack on any woman is unacceptable and that every woman should be treated as a human being. No one has been brought to justice for Emma’s killing. The case was reopened in 2015 but has stalled, despite a key suspect being named in a report to the Crown Office in 2018. The biggest manhunt in the history of Strathclyde police continues to be unsolved and the killer of Emma Caldwell remains free. That leaves Emma’s family still without justice and the lives of other women still threatened. I wonder whether the cabinet secretary would make a commitment that he and the next Lord Advocate will treat that as a priority.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-00294, in the name of Keith Brown, on justice: recover, renew, transform. 14:28
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Keith Brown) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to consider some of the most important challenges that our justice system faces. I want to use the time to build on my rece...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Could the proposed new coronavirus legislation that the Government wants to introduce, and the powers that would then exist, lead to people on remand staying...
Keith Brown SNP
To be honest, I am not sure about the connection that the member makes between the powers in the coronavirus legislation and the extension of remand, but I a...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
We have discussed the issue before, but when we carried out the reform that extended sheriff court sentencing powers to five years, it was always intended th...
Keith Brown SNP
We have discussed the issue previously, and Pauline McNeill will know that officials were on that call. Although I am happy to come back to her with a fuller...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary be addressing policing at any point? I ask because there was a good question at First Minister’s question time today about body-wo...
Keith Brown SNP
I heard and understood the First Minister’s response earlier. We are willing to investigate the matter. I am sure that Liam Kerr is aware that there are a nu...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am very pleased to open for the Scottish Conservatives in my first justice debate. I took on the education brief just a month before the pandemic hit, and ...
Keith Brown SNP
I am more than willing to engage in that discussion. The member will have heard what I said about a victims commissioner and additional trauma support for vi...
Jamie Greene Con
They are welcome changes, but they do not go far enough or fast enough. We go back to November 2019 when justice secretary at the time, Humza Yousaf, stated ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans, and the Minister for Community Safety, Ash Denham, for meeting me yesterday. I hope that we can conti...
Keith Brown SNP
I thank the member for her challenge, but I am sure that she knows that decisions on investigations are for the investigatory authorities. However, in her ow...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I appreciate that. Talking about the prime suspect in the case, investigative journalist Sam Poling said that “All the evidence I’ve seen suggests this man...
Keith Brown SNP
That is what the courts service and the figures say that the date will be. Yesterday, I made the point that it should be down to us all to see whether we can...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I acknowledge that point—let us see what progress we can make. Like Jamie Greene, I want to make a point about the scarcity of legal aid, which has driven m...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Would you bring your remarks to a close, please?
Pauline McNeill Lab
Sorry, Presiding Officer. I was told that I had nine minutes to speak.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are down for eight.
Pauline McNeill Lab
I will finish on this point. When it comes to decision time, it would be helpful for us to know what the Green amendment means by “institutional violence”, ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I express my heartfelt thanks to all those who have been involved in supporting survivors and victims of all forms of violence throughout the pandemic. As r...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I welcome the cabinet secretary, Jamie Greene and Maggie Chapman to their new roles and Pauline McNeill back to her old stomping ground. She will find that m...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I am not defending extraordinary delays, but does the member accept that there sometimes has to be a health and safety inquiry or an aerospace inquiry that w...
Liam McArthur LD
I certainly accept that there are mitigating circumstances in some instances, but that emphasises the importance of keeping the families of victims informed ...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
We move to the open debate. Members who wish to participate might want to ensure that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. 15:15
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I plan to address two areas in this short speech. First, I commend the Scottish Government’s commitment to creating a register of interests for members of t...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I first wish good luck to everybody who is delivering their maiden speech today. I know how it feels; I was very proud to stand here last week and deliver mi...
Keith Brown SNP
Can I answer the question?
Pam Gosal Con
I will hold on because I am hoping that the cabinet secretary will respond to the questions when he is summing up. I will get on with some of the words I hav...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Before I start my speech, I say that Pam Gosal asked an awful lot of questions in her speech, but was not prepared to listen to answers—which seems to be ver...