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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 10 June 2021

10 Jun 2021 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Justice System
Brown, Keith SNP Clackmannanshire and Dunblane Watch on SPTV

I heard and understood the First Minister’s response earlier. We are willing to investigate the matter. I am sure that Liam Kerr is aware that there are a number of issues around body-worn cameras. The police are aware of those issues and we need to look at them. There will be body-worn cameras for the armed Police Scotland officers who are attending the 26th UN climate change conference of the parties—COP26—and we are looking at a further roll-out in due course.

Throughout the period of renewal that I have talked about for our justice system, we will continue to engage with partners. As I have said, the Crown Office has, at the direction of the outgoing Lord Advocate, significantly reformed arrangements for the investigation of deaths, to which it has applied significant additional resources from the Scottish Government.

We will ensure that people and communities across Scotland are safe. As we do that, we will continue to invest the money that is recovered from individuals. Phase 5 of the cashback for communities programme, which will run until 2023, is providing £19 million to support diversionary activity and life-changing interventions to those who are most at risk of being involved in antisocial behaviour, offending and entering the justice system.

The final two areas that I will highlight are community justice and prisons. It is helpful to consider the context that is set out in the 2019 report “Hard Edges Scotland”, which showed that people in the criminal justice system commonly experience severe and multiple disadvantage, including homelessness, substance misuse, offending, mental ill health and domestic violence or abuse.

The latest statistics on prisons show that individuals from the 10 per cent most deprived areas are overrepresented among prison arrivals by a factor of 3. That has been a consistent picture across the past decade. In addition, the proportion of individuals arriving in prison who report having no fixed abode has increased across a decade of austerity from 4.4 per cent to 7.5 per cent.

Those are societal issues that need to be addressed beyond the justice system. By helping individuals earlier, we can avoid damaging impacts being visited on future generations. Our aim is that prisons should be reserved for individuals who pose a serious risk of harm, and that periods of imprisonment—in particular, periods of remand and short custodial sentences—should be imposed only when there are no alternatives.

For those who end up in custody, our commitment is to continue to invest in the modernisation of the prison estate, to ensure that it is fit for purpose. That includes completing the construction of the new, transformative female estate and progressing with replacements for HMP Barlinnie and HMP Inverness. It is worth noting that the annual average cost per prisoner place for 2019-20 was more than £38,000.

Short custodial sentences do little to reduce the likelihood of reoffending, which is why in 2019 we extended the presumption against short sentences to sentences of 12 months or less. Such sentences disrupt families and communities, they impact on life chances and they adversely affect employment opportunities and stable housing—the very things that support diversion from offending, as evidence shows.

The Government’s sustained and long-term programmes to promote community safety, crime prevention and the rehabilitation of individuals have meant less crime and fewer victims than a decade ago, and it is worth pointing out that the police service, which Liam Kerr mentioned, has done a fantastic job in helping to reduce crime over the past 15 years.

In developing a new national community justice strategy and in exploring legislative options to divert people from prison, we aim to make our society safer for everyone—reducing reoffending, reducing recorded crime and, ultimately, reducing the number of victims.

As an example of the preventative and cross-cutting work that will be undertaken over the session, the Minister for Community Safety will take a thematic, clear and strategic approach to the interaction of women with the justice system.

Thankfully, we have one of the most diverse Parliaments ever elected. I am very proud that my party has more female than male MSPs. We also have a more generally diverse and potentially more progressive Parliament than before. There is a real opportunity to harness that diversity in working collectively across portfolios and, I hope, across parties to address systemic issues and bring forward progressive policies that will help to steer us through the recovery and meet the challenges of the future.

I move,

That the Parliament commends the commitment, dedication and innovation of justice partners, staff and key stakeholders in ensuring that the justice system can recover, renew and transform as Scotland emerges from the COVID-19 pandemic, while looking towards reform that delivers a faster, fairer and more effective system; acknowledges key challenges and the ongoing need for measures to both continue to protect public health and to support the recovery of the justice system as it emerges from this most challenging period; recognises the investment of additional resources in helping to address the impact and encourages continued collaboration to ensure that the interests of victims and those who rely on the justice system remain at the heart of necessary reforms; recognises the inventive solutions that have been adopted, including the use of cinemas as remote jury centres, moving civil business online and enabling prisoners to maintain family contact through virtual visits, but, as in other jurisdictions worldwide, recognises the impact of the pandemic on the delivery of justice in Scotland on victims, witnesses and those accused of criminal offences, including those on remand, indicating the need for a clear focus on addressing the backlogs in court business and ensuring cases are progressed within a reasonable time period, all in order to deliver a modern justice system fit for future challenges.

14:44  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-00294, in the name of Keith Brown, on justice: recover, renew, transform. 14:28
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Keith Brown) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to consider some of the most important challenges that our justice system faces. I want to use the time to build on my rece...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Could the proposed new coronavirus legislation that the Government wants to introduce, and the powers that would then exist, lead to people on remand staying...
Keith Brown SNP
To be honest, I am not sure about the connection that the member makes between the powers in the coronavirus legislation and the extension of remand, but I a...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
We have discussed the issue before, but when we carried out the reform that extended sheriff court sentencing powers to five years, it was always intended th...
Keith Brown SNP
We have discussed the issue previously, and Pauline McNeill will know that officials were on that call. Although I am happy to come back to her with a fuller...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary be addressing policing at any point? I ask because there was a good question at First Minister’s question time today about body-wo...
Keith Brown SNP
I heard and understood the First Minister’s response earlier. We are willing to investigate the matter. I am sure that Liam Kerr is aware that there are a nu...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am very pleased to open for the Scottish Conservatives in my first justice debate. I took on the education brief just a month before the pandemic hit, and ...
Keith Brown SNP
I am more than willing to engage in that discussion. The member will have heard what I said about a victims commissioner and additional trauma support for vi...
Jamie Greene Con
They are welcome changes, but they do not go far enough or fast enough. We go back to November 2019 when justice secretary at the time, Humza Yousaf, stated ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans, and the Minister for Community Safety, Ash Denham, for meeting me yesterday. I hope that we can conti...
Keith Brown SNP
I thank the member for her challenge, but I am sure that she knows that decisions on investigations are for the investigatory authorities. However, in her ow...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I appreciate that. Talking about the prime suspect in the case, investigative journalist Sam Poling said that “All the evidence I’ve seen suggests this man...
Keith Brown SNP
That is what the courts service and the figures say that the date will be. Yesterday, I made the point that it should be down to us all to see whether we can...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I acknowledge that point—let us see what progress we can make. Like Jamie Greene, I want to make a point about the scarcity of legal aid, which has driven m...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Would you bring your remarks to a close, please?
Pauline McNeill Lab
Sorry, Presiding Officer. I was told that I had nine minutes to speak.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are down for eight.
Pauline McNeill Lab
I will finish on this point. When it comes to decision time, it would be helpful for us to know what the Green amendment means by “institutional violence”, ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I express my heartfelt thanks to all those who have been involved in supporting survivors and victims of all forms of violence throughout the pandemic. As r...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I welcome the cabinet secretary, Jamie Greene and Maggie Chapman to their new roles and Pauline McNeill back to her old stomping ground. She will find that m...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I am not defending extraordinary delays, but does the member accept that there sometimes has to be a health and safety inquiry or an aerospace inquiry that w...
Liam McArthur LD
I certainly accept that there are mitigating circumstances in some instances, but that emphasises the importance of keeping the families of victims informed ...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
We move to the open debate. Members who wish to participate might want to ensure that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. 15:15
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I plan to address two areas in this short speech. First, I commend the Scottish Government’s commitment to creating a register of interests for members of t...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I first wish good luck to everybody who is delivering their maiden speech today. I know how it feels; I was very proud to stand here last week and deliver mi...
Keith Brown SNP
Can I answer the question?
Pam Gosal Con
I will hold on because I am hoping that the cabinet secretary will respond to the questions when he is summing up. I will get on with some of the words I hav...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Before I start my speech, I say that Pam Gosal asked an awful lot of questions in her speech, but was not prepared to listen to answers—which seems to be ver...