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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 19 January 2021

19 Jan 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Martin, Gillian SNP Aberdeenshire East Watch on SPTV

I will talk about the outreach that the committee did on the bill. It is important to stress how valuable and comprehensive it was, and to commend the children and young people who took part. Their insights, sharing of first-hand experience, and sheer enthusiasm for the legislation were really quite something.

It is clear that the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child means an awful lot to the young people in Scotland. Over a month, we had eight planned sessions with children and young people, as well as our public committee meetings with stakeholders. We had sessions with children and young people of all ages, young people with disabilities, care-experienced children and young people, asylum-seeking children, and young people who have been the victims of trafficking. We heard from young people with experience of the justice system, and from children of different ethnicities, as well as our new young Scots who are coming to us from countries across the world.

I was particularly struck by the strength of feeling on the UNCRC and children’s rights from looked-after children and care-experienced young adults. They are young people who have felt in the past that their rights were not being communicated to them or addressed, particularly with regard to seeing their families and being involved in shaping decisions around their future. Many times, we heard that the UNCRC rights should be built into, and be apparent in, the everyday practices of the institutions and services that those children and young people interact with, as well as the people with whom they come into contact. The guidance that is delivered as part of the legislation will be just as important as the wording of the bill.

In private session with a wide range of children and young people, we heard some compelling evidence on how their views should be at the centre of decisions that are made about them. Actually, to be blunt about it, decisions should not be made about them, but with them, and our recommendations strongly reflect that. Much of our stakeholder evidence and submissions for our public sessions centred around that issue, too. Many stakeholders called on the children’s rights scheme to

“include a specific requirement on Scottish Ministers to report on topics relating to access to justice, including ... avenues of redress when things go wrong ... support for children with protected characteristics or vulnerabilities”

and “child-friendly complaints procedures”, and to include the right to “advocacy services” and “legal aid”.

Josh Kennedy of the Scottish Youth Parliament said that child rights and wellbeing impact assessments

“should be published in a child-friendly format”,

and that children’s participation in decision making should be mandatory. I agree with him.

Another thing that young people were particularly clear on was that children should know their rights, and that, as the UNCRC is incorporated into law, more work should be done to ensure that education on those rights is done throughout childhood. That view was particularly clear in the sessions that we had with children who had experienced the justice system and the care system. In any given situation, their clear understanding of their rights should be ensured. A young person with experience in the justice system told us that

“A lot of professionals automatically assume as young people with lived experience we know about our rights when we don’t.”

It is one thing to have rights enshrined in law, but it is quite another to have those rights proactively and appropriately communicated by professionals to children in a range of settings.

That leads on to more general issues of education on children’s rights. It is true that a lot of those will not necessarily fit into, or be appropriate to, the bill; however, I was pleased to hear that the Deputy First Minister was mindful of the importance of rights education, not just for children but for the professionals who come into contact with children and young people.

I am pleased to say that there is also a child-friendly version of our stage 1 report, which practises what we preach. We feel that child-friendly communication from all public bodies that interact with or make decisions that affect children should involve documentation and materials that are easily read and understood by children. We also recommended that those should be in a range of languages.

The convener and I spent a great Saturday morning with Licketyspit theatre company, which works with young children across communities in Glasgow. In spending time with it—for some of which I had a toy caterpillar on my head—and taking part in its games and songs about children’s rights, it was clear to me that even the youngest children can get a handle on their rights if the communication is appropriate. It also helps if it is fun, which that morning definitely was.

I close by thanking the committee clerks and the outreach team. The work that they put in to gather children’s views was absolutely outstanding. It is on the outreach and evidence gathering that the report’s recommendations—and, ultimately, the success of the bill—will stand. It is already a great bill, and I am proud that Scotland is playing its part in fully realising children’s rights. The testimony of children in our scrutiny, and the Deputy First Minister’s clear and compassionate acknowledgement of what they have said, are set to make it even better.

16:46  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23883, in the name of John Swinney, on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorpor...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
At a time when our country is wrestling with the difficulties and challenges resulting from Covid—the disruption to our lives and the burden and sense of los...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I congratulate the cabinet secretary on an excellent bill. Does he agree that in order to be world leaders in children’s rights, we need to have an age of cr...
John Swinney SNP
The issues in relation to the age of criminal responsibility have been well rehearsed in Parliament and will continue to be debated as a consequence of the p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Ruth Maguire to speak on behalf of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee. 16:02
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee in the debate. It has been 30 years since the UK ratified the UN Convention on t...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am delighted to open on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives in this important stage 1 debate. I extend my thanks to the committee clerks and all those who...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a privilege to speak in this stage 1 debate on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill and to open for...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
This is the first stage in a historic process for the Parliament and for Scotland’s young people. It is an important milestone in the wider efforts to codify...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I thank the Equalities and Human Rights Committee’s clerks, and I thank the witnesses—in particular, the children and young people who gave us very full evid...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I was somewhat amused by your “Finally finally”, which a few members use. 16:40
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
I will talk about the outreach that the committee did on the bill. It is important to stress how valuable and comprehensive it was, and to commend the childr...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
For the avoidance of doubt, I start by saying that Scottish Conservative members support the bill in principle. If we voice technical concerns, that is a rea...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Greene must close, so he cannot take an intervention.
Jamie Greene Con
Given the genuine cross-party ambition to improve outcomes for all young Scots, let the bill not become one of those bad laws. 16:52
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
It gives me great pleasure to speak in today’s historic debate. We often use the word “historic” in this Parliament, but we rarely use it as appropriately as...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the Equalities and Human Rights Committee’s support for the incorporation of UNCRC into Scots law, which is long overdue, and its work on the stage...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
The bill that we are debating is crucial to our nation’s future and I will be delighted to agree to its general principles at decision time—in fact, to quote...
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
As a member of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, I am pleased to speak about children’s rights today. I hope that we are able to do the issue justic...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. Mr Gray, you will need to put your card in for anything worth while to happen. After all this time—it is so easily done. 17:17
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am delighted to find myself closing the debate for the Labour Party, because incorporation of the UNCRC into Scots law is a policy that we have long suppor...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Does Iain Gray recognise that, at eight, the age of criminal responsibility in Scotland is lower than it is anywhere else in the British isles and in those h...
Iain Gray Lab
That is the case, and it makes it worse to know that we passed legislation to move on from that position but that that law has not been commenced. That is wh...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I am delighted to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives and I place on record my thanks to the Equalities and Human Rights Committee for i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call the Deputy First Minister, John Swinney, to close the debate for the Scottish Government. 17:30
John Swinney SNP
I draw the debate to a close with a word of thanks to members of the Scottish Parliament across the political spectrum for their contributions to the debate ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I have not been following the bill closely, but an answer that I got today to a parliamentary question said that the Government did not know how many childre...
John Swinney SNP
Mr Findlay clearly has not been following the debate. We did a data collection exercise with local government last summer, which identified 70,000 young peop...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
I simply put that detail on the record to make it clear that what Mr Cole-Hamilton put on the record earlier is not a clear, accurate and comprehensive disti...