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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 12 November 2020

12 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The convener started by reading out a list. I will do likewise to make the point that all the experts agree. The minister said that we should follow the advice, so why does he not do that?

The advice comes from the Office for National Statistics, because it does it, the Bank of England does it and even some of Whitehall does it. I feel a song coming on. The UK Statistics Authority recommends it, as do the Royal Statistical Society, the House of Commons Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, the Fraser of Allander institute, Sir Charles Bean, who is a former member of the monetary committee of the Bank of England, John Pullinger, the former UK national statistician and, of course, the Parliament’s own Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee.

All of them—august bodies and experts in their field—agree that ending pre-release access to statistics is the right thing to do. But—of course—the Scottish Government knows better. The ONS and the Bank of England have been doing it for three years and the sky has not fallen in, so I do not understand why the Scottish Government will not do it. It is best practice and it is the gold standard in the statistics world. It is about trust and transparency—facts, free of spin. What is there not to like about that?

Do not believe me, but instead listen to the words of experts. Ed Humpherson, who is the director general for regulation in the UK Statistics Authority, said:

“I regard official statistics as a public asset that should be equally available to all.”

He went on to say that

“equality of access to official statistics is a key component of the trustworthiness in a statistical system.”

Under the UKSA code of practice, official statistics producers must commit to releasing statistics in an open and transparent manner.

I am not questioning the accuracy of the statistics; I believe that the chief statistician and his team try to do a good job. The problem is the privileged access that is enjoyed by ministers, which is not in keeping with being open and is not, therefore, in keeping with the code of practice.

John Pullinger had this observation to make when pre-release was being discussed three years ago. He said:

“the public benefit likely to result from pre-release access to ONS statistics is outweighed by the detriment to public trust in those statistics likely to result from such access.”

As Professor Deborah Ashby of the Royal Statistical Society said,

“Quite simply, allowing a government privileged access to official statistics risks undermining public trust in those statistics as, for example, it creates opportunities for figures to be ‘spun’ to the media or ‘buried’ beneath other announcements.”

Heaven forfend that the Scottish Government would do anything like that. All those people believe that there is a compelling case for reform, yet the Scottish Government continues to resist.

This is actually quite a timid bill; it is the result of compromise on the committee. I would have gone further, but I recognise the thoughtful comments that have been made by some SNP former members of the committee, acknowledging the need for reform. It is therefore disappointing that the Scottish Government wants to continue to have a head start so that it can spin its way out of bad news. It wants privileged access to continue, and it is content for us in Scotland to be second best. [Interruption.] I am not sure that I have time to give way.

But then, of course, the SNP Government has form; it has had its knuckles rapped several times before by the UK stats authority for its misuse of statistics. We also had the freedom of information scandal and withholding of information. Now, many members across the chamber see the daily deliberate obstruction and secrecy in the Government’s dealings with the Parliament’s Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints.

The SNP Government has presided over a new level of secrecy in Scotland—a culture in which secrecy is the norm. It is time to throw open the doors and let the light shine in. This is not a distraction; this is about the machinery of Government and it is about all future Governments, whatever their political stripe. It is about doing things in an open and transparent way and building trust and confidence with the people of Scotland. Let us make progress and pass the bill at stage 1.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23289, in the name of Gordon Lindhurst, on the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill....
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Why raise the same issue in November 2018, in September 2019 and again today? Why, given the no shortage of other problems in the world, persist with a focus...
The Minister for Public Finance and Migration (Ben Macpherson) SNP
I am pleased to speak in the stage 1 debate on the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill, which is a committee bill. The Government has ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
The minister has mentioned a series of bodies to which statistics are released in a pre-release form. In a sense, however, that does not get to the nub of th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is time in hand, minister, so that intervention does not impact on your speaking time.
Ben Macpherson SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Mr Wightman for his intervention. On the latter point, I have clearly stated our position, and I appreciate the nuance...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
In its written evidence to the committee, the Royal Statistical Society’s opinion was that reform “would be warmly welcomed by all those committed to statis...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
The convener started by reading out a list. I will do likewise to make the point that all the experts agree. The minister said that we should follow the advi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of four minutes, please. I have a little time in hand for interventions. 16:32
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful to take part in the debate, as I was involved in the topic as deputy convener of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee at that time, and ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I will immediately respond to one part of Jackie Baillie’s contribution. There is no “secrecy” about any of the statistics that are part of this debate. The ...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
Official statistics are important in all democracies, enabling us to hold our Governments to account, no matter what party we are in or who is in power. It i...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
First, I have to say that I regret the personal attacks with which the Opposition came in today on members who are not here and who cannot defend themselves....
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Richard Lyle SNP
No, I will not. The member lost that right when he started personal attacks on people. He will not interrupt. It is better—
Daniel Johnson Lab
On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. I urge the member to clarify his statement. He has just made the serious allegation that I have besmirched the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is not a point of order. Would Mr Lyle like to respond before he moves on?
Richard Lyle SNP
They can give it out but they cannot take it. My comment was not aimed at Daniel Johnson. It is better that ministers are involved in the orderly release of...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
It can be difficult when we are in a hybrid situation, because the system does not allow interventions when people are taking part remotely. Sometimes, that ...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Ben Macpherson said that the debate is a distraction. I do not think that it is a distraction. It is an important debate because it gets to the heart of the ...
John Mason SNP
I take James Kelly’s point, but how would the PRA affect those figures about poverty in Glasgow?
James Kelly Lab
It is a fair point, which I will address as I go through my speech. I commend the committee for introducing the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (S...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
We have heard some away-with-the-fairies speeches this afternoon. It is strange that pre-release access to Government statistics was enjoyed for eight years...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Willie Coffey SNP
No, thank you. The chief statistician also said that pre-release access has been working well since the 2008 order, and long before it; that the Scottish Go...
Andy Wightman Green
Will the member give way?
Willie Coffey SNP
No, I have hardly any time left—my apologies. It is part of the day job that ministers do for the whole country. People expect them to get facts and figures...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I am not a member of the committee that has introduced the bill, and I defer to other members who clearly know far more about it than I do. Nevertheless, I a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the closing speeches. 17:04
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee, not just because I had the pleasure of taking part in one of its evidence sessions when I was a substitute member, but because the iss...