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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 December 2020

03 Dec 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Coffey, Willie SNP Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley Watch on SPTV

I think that Daniel Johnson has just condemned Gordon Lindhurst to banishment by describing him as a municipal socialist—but there we go.

I welcome the chance to say a few words in this stage 1 debate on the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. Before I say anything about the bill, it is worth saying something about the public perception—or the lack of perception—of what this is really all about. If members talk to constituents about heat networks and why the Parliament is legislating on them, they are unlikely to get a great deal of acknowledgment or even much awareness of what networks are and why we are legislating. Therein lies a problem for all of us as we take the bill forward. The help of all MSPs is needed to start to bring these matters to the attention of our electorate.

We are talking about a system of supplying heat that involves hot water or steam being piped to networks that connect to our houses. It does away with central heating boilers that burn gas to heat our homes, which most of us have. That is it in a nutshell. We have to start a discussion with the public at large about how we and they can go about all of that.

The aims and reasons behind the idea are clear enough. As many members have reminded us, we face a climate emergency and we need to reduce the emissions that are associated with our domestic homes if we are to make good progress towards our target of net zero emissions over the next 20 years.

During the committee’s evidence sessions, we heard that half of Scotland’s entire energy consumption was to create heat, with over 80 per cent of all our houses dependent on gas. We have also heard that about 50 per cent of Denmark’s entire heat demand is met by district and local heat networks. In Scotland, the figure is only about 1 per cent—I think that that is similar to England’s figure. We know that, for a variety of reasons, Denmark started off on its journey much earlier than we were able to. The challenge is formidable, but the prize can be even greater.

The bill is mainly technical, but it has a number of key provisions that are essential to allow us to begin the process. It starts us off on the necessary journey of regulating the heat network sector by creating a licensing system that heat network operators will be bound by. That provides for consumers the essential protection that those operators are fit and proper companies to deliver those services.

The bill also creates a consent system to make sure that local factors and local assets are taken into account before the approval of any new developments, although there was some discussion in the committee about the extent to which the public themselves may be able to give such consent. The bill will also allow us to identify potential heat network zones in which it would be appropriate to establish a heat network. Among a few other provisions, it will also require public sector building owners to assess the potential of their estate to connect to a heat network so that they can begin to make progress in that regard.

One of the issues that came up was who the regulator for the sector should be. The discussion centred around Ofgem, which is a statutory body that was established under UK legislation. It is fair to say that everyone, including the Scottish Government, I believe, was happy for Ofgem to provide those regulatory duties for us, provided that it applies whatever the Scottish ministers determine as appropriate criteria for the sector here in Scotland.

There was also a discussion about licensing, including the regime to be put in place, and who the licensing authority should be. There was a good bit of discussion about whether Ofgem could, or should, occupy both the regulatory and licensing roles, and whether there would be a conflict if it did so. It would be worth while hearing the minister’s further thoughts on those key duties and how we best set up and support those functions.

I will end where I started. In engaging with the public on such important work, local people will want to be involved and not feel that things are being done to them. We need to provide the means by which local people can participate in the whole transition to heat networks and feel that their interests are at its heart. They will want to know more about how existing systems in their homes could be decommissioned, and whether any support will be available to help with that transition. People will also want to know that what we end up with is not only better for the environment but much more efficient and cost effective for their homes and families.

I am happy to support the bill at stage 1.

17:02  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23564, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on stage 1 of the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. 15:55
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate on the bill and that we have reached this point in the process. I thank the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for its...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the minister think that Ofgem would be the appropriate body?
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
We are very supportive of Ofgem providing the role. Obviously, it is not within our gift to appoint a body that is constituted under a UK statute. We are see...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Heat networks are hardly a new idea. The first modern district heating system was pioneered in a town in the state of New York in 1877. Birdsill Holly, a fri...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
It is welcome to finally be here deliberating legislation to advance heat networks in Scotland, although I feel that it has been a long time coming; so long,...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alexander Burnett Con
If I can have the time back, certainly.
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
The member rightly identifies that we need an accurate understanding of what the heat load and the demand load would be, building by building. Does he apprec...
Alexander Burnett Con
I welcome that reply. I also note for the record that I welcome the minister’s offer in previous conversations to be as constructive as possible on the bill....
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Paul Wheelhouse for introducing the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. I welcome the bill as an opportunity to address concerns around the sector and as ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I call Andy Wightman to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Greens. You have up to five minutes, Mr Wightman. 16:28
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
Scottish Greens welcome the bill. I thank the committee’s clerks and all those who gave evidence. As the convener did in his opening remarks, I thank the min...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I hope that the Deputy Presiding Officer might grant Andy Wightman a closing remark, so that he can explain why he was on special manoeuvres, skiing in Siber...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We come to the open debate. 16:37
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
We face a number of challenges around heat. They include the need to decarbonise heat and the fuel poverty that many of our constituents face. Heat networks,...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of interests. It is interesting to take part in the debate as somebody who has not been involved in the committe...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I am grateful to the member for giving way; I will not take much of his time. I very much agree with him about the need for pace. I do not disagree with that...
Edward Mountain Con
I thank the minister for that, and I agree. Whoever is slowing it down and wherever the slowness is, I will criticise those people, because it is a great sch...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As ever, I begin by welcoming the opportunity to contribute to this important debate. Scotland and, by extension, this Scottish Government have a proud reco...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have a little time in hand, so I am giving quizzical looks if members go over their four minutes. I am not upset. 16:51
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for that reassurance, Presiding Officer. I speak on behalf of all members when I say that we do not like upsetting you at all. Members: Hear, hear.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I echo Edward Mountain’s comment. As a non-committee member, one can feel a little like an interloper, especially on a subject such as this. I would say, how...
Andy Wightman Green
I am very glad that Daniel Johnson mentioned that. Does he agree that what we are seeing in countries such as Denmark is an example of municipal enterprise, ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
By the means of our collective endeavour, we achieve more than we do alone. I do not care much if we want to call that municipal socialism or co-operative en...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I think that Daniel Johnson has just condemned Gordon Lindhurst to banishment by describing him as a municipal socialist—but there we go. I welcome the chan...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is perhaps fitting that we are having this debate while many parts of Scotland are seeing the first snow of winter. I was a member of the Economy, Energy...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Colin Beattie, to be followed by Bob Doris. Interruption. I think that you are on mute, Mr Beattie. While we are waiting for things to be sorted at th...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
It is just as well that I was paying attention, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to speak in the debate and to highlight the very real opportunities to boost...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
Tackling our need to decarbonise heating systems must be a major priority for us all. To date, we have been fairly successful in decarbonising our electricit...