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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 December 2020

03 Dec 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I hope that the Deputy Presiding Officer might grant Andy Wightman a closing remark, so that he can explain why he was on special manoeuvres, skiing in Siberia. [Laughter.]

Like others, I thank the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for its work on the bill, as well as those who provided evidence. In the light of the comments by Andy Wightman and the convener, I, too, thank Paul Wheelhouse for his characteristically constructive engagement with the committee on the matter.

I was delighted that committee members managed to visit Orkney as part of their evidence gathering. That is always to be encouraged, and I am sure that it helped to inform the recommendations in the stage 1 report. Indeed, the islands that I represent have shown themselves to be pioneering in the generation and use of energy in ways that cut emissions and lead us towards net zero. Of course, achieving that in relation to heat, as in transport, remains one of the biggest challenges that we face. That is why the bill, which the Scottish Liberal Democrats strongly support, is crucial, and it is why the point that Claudia Beamish made about adequate resourcing of the provisions in the bill was well made.

The Orkney example also illustrates the tension in the bill between national oversight and local delivery. I accept that the consent process needs to ensure that we have the right projects in the right places and that we have a proper balance between environmental objectives and efforts to reduce fuel poverty. However, communities and local authorities must have a formal role in the planning and consenting of schemes, because, without that, public buy-in becomes difficult and, as CAS and others have pointed out, decisions could be taken that either ignore or override the interests of local residents, some of whom might be vulnerable.

Given the higher levels of fuel poverty in our island and rural areas, the bill’s provisions demand rigorous island and rural proofing. As various witnesses made clear to the committee, we need to avoid overly bureaucratic regulation, but we also need to ensure that customers across Scotland have access to the same low prices for energy.

Denmark has made a success of a decentralised process, and, as members have observed, there is no reason why Scotland cannot and should not do the same. I therefore welcome the minister’s assurances about transferring consenting power to local councils that wish to have it and about requiring meaningful engagement by developers with local communities. I was struck by Andy Wightman’s position in relation to a presumption. That approach has been taken to planning for aquaculture development, so there is a precedent.

On the theme of island proofing, I ask the minister to investigate why Shetland Heat Energy and Power’s treatment on rates appears to be at odds with the treatment of projects elsewhere in Scotland. That might not fall into his ministerial responsibility, but, even if it does not, I am sure that my colleague Beatrice Wishart, as well as Shetland Heat Energy and Power, would welcome some clarification on that.

The bill makes sensible proposals on definitions and licensing. I echo the points about the benefits of having a consistent approach across the UK, which would point to Ofgem being the obvious choice as a licensing authority. However, on the question of conditions, I think that we can be bolder in the bill, and that can be done under the guise of consumer advice, which is devolved to the Parliament. I see no reason why the bill should not include more detail on licence conditions such as information about service, price, customer engagement and minimum standards. More importantly, CAS, Energy Action Scotland and the ombudsman also see no reason why that should not be the case.

During the passage of the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009, Scottish Liberal Democrats worked with others to deliver important amendments prioritising action on heat networks. We believe that setting stretching targets in the bill is again the right approach and the best way of achieving those ambitions, as WWF and others have argued. I look forward to working with the committee and the minister and his officials to make the necessary improvements at stage 2.

I confirm, once again, that Scottish Liberal Democrats will be happy to vote in support of the bill at decision time this evening.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23564, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on stage 1 of the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. 15:55
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate on the bill and that we have reached this point in the process. I thank the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for its...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the minister think that Ofgem would be the appropriate body?
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
We are very supportive of Ofgem providing the role. Obviously, it is not within our gift to appoint a body that is constituted under a UK statute. We are see...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Heat networks are hardly a new idea. The first modern district heating system was pioneered in a town in the state of New York in 1877. Birdsill Holly, a fri...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
It is welcome to finally be here deliberating legislation to advance heat networks in Scotland, although I feel that it has been a long time coming; so long,...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alexander Burnett Con
If I can have the time back, certainly.
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
The member rightly identifies that we need an accurate understanding of what the heat load and the demand load would be, building by building. Does he apprec...
Alexander Burnett Con
I welcome that reply. I also note for the record that I welcome the minister’s offer in previous conversations to be as constructive as possible on the bill....
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Paul Wheelhouse for introducing the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. I welcome the bill as an opportunity to address concerns around the sector and as ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I call Andy Wightman to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Greens. You have up to five minutes, Mr Wightman. 16:28
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
Scottish Greens welcome the bill. I thank the committee’s clerks and all those who gave evidence. As the convener did in his opening remarks, I thank the min...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I hope that the Deputy Presiding Officer might grant Andy Wightman a closing remark, so that he can explain why he was on special manoeuvres, skiing in Siber...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We come to the open debate. 16:37
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
We face a number of challenges around heat. They include the need to decarbonise heat and the fuel poverty that many of our constituents face. Heat networks,...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of interests. It is interesting to take part in the debate as somebody who has not been involved in the committe...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I am grateful to the member for giving way; I will not take much of his time. I very much agree with him about the need for pace. I do not disagree with that...
Edward Mountain Con
I thank the minister for that, and I agree. Whoever is slowing it down and wherever the slowness is, I will criticise those people, because it is a great sch...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As ever, I begin by welcoming the opportunity to contribute to this important debate. Scotland and, by extension, this Scottish Government have a proud reco...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have a little time in hand, so I am giving quizzical looks if members go over their four minutes. I am not upset. 16:51
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for that reassurance, Presiding Officer. I speak on behalf of all members when I say that we do not like upsetting you at all. Members: Hear, hear.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I echo Edward Mountain’s comment. As a non-committee member, one can feel a little like an interloper, especially on a subject such as this. I would say, how...
Andy Wightman Green
I am very glad that Daniel Johnson mentioned that. Does he agree that what we are seeing in countries such as Denmark is an example of municipal enterprise, ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
By the means of our collective endeavour, we achieve more than we do alone. I do not care much if we want to call that municipal socialism or co-operative en...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I think that Daniel Johnson has just condemned Gordon Lindhurst to banishment by describing him as a municipal socialist—but there we go. I welcome the chan...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is perhaps fitting that we are having this debate while many parts of Scotland are seeing the first snow of winter. I was a member of the Economy, Energy...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Colin Beattie, to be followed by Bob Doris. Interruption. I think that you are on mute, Mr Beattie. While we are waiting for things to be sorted at th...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
It is just as well that I was paying attention, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to speak in the debate and to highlight the very real opportunities to boost...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
Tackling our need to decarbonise heating systems must be a major priority for us all. To date, we have been fairly successful in decarbonising our electricit...