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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 December 2020

03 Dec 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Heat networks are hardly a new idea. The first modern district heating system was pioneered in a town in the state of New York in 1877. Birdsill Holly, a friend of Thomas Edison, observed the abundance of thermal energy in urban areas, and he realised that heat from industrial processes could be piped into homes to meet public demand. Waste not, want not. A triumph of the free market, we might say, but this is a committee report and I could not possibly comment.

The Scottish Government has presented us with a doorstop of a bill. It extends to 85 sections and 42 pages. I am pleased to say that our stage 1 report is two pages shorter. In the words of Horace,

“Whatever advice you give, be brief.”

It is, however, pleasing that the minister has heeded so much of our advice. It is fair to say we are not overly familiar with the words

“The Scottish Government accepts the Committee’s recommendation”,

but credit where credit is due: that phrase appears in almost double figures in Mr Wheelhouse’s written response to us. He and his officials are to be commended for taking such a constructive approach.

The bill is a technical bill with substantial delegated powers. In broad terms, it seeks to regulate the supply of thermal energy via heat networks. It has a single purpose, but that single purpose covers a plethora of policy areas, including energy efficiency, renewables, land rights, planning, and climate change.

I want to focus on a handful of matters that we highlighted in our scrutiny. The first and most fundamental matter, which also featured in our energy inquiry, is public engagement. The Committee on Climate Change has advised the Scottish Government to prioritise behaviour change. Our committee agrees. We also want the Scottish Government to take the lead by example to facilitate new social norms.

We want to address the disconnect between public support for carbon reduction and a lack of awareness of the role of heat, and to ensure community buy-in, consumer confidence and what we might term social licence.

Citizens Advice Scotland saw the intentions of the Bill as “admirable” but said that

“it could go further to guarantee good outcomes for consumers.”

CAS cited the experience of one community in north-west Glasgow, an area where more than 90 households had their heat turned off after falling into arrears. The provider had put up its price but had failed to appreciate the vulnerability of those customers. That is why we need a clearer commitment to local input in the growth and development of heat networks, which I think the minister recognises. That must be at the heart of the bill and central to its ethos.

We welcome the minister saying that developers should provide a community engagement report and the indication that he will lodge an amendment to stipulate that in the bill. Again, we credit him with taking a positive stance. He has agreed that provisions on fuel poverty, which a number of witnesses wanted, should be included in the bill.

The Nordic experience, notably in Denmark and Norway, is an acknowledged influence on the bill. In other circumstances, we would have liked to see the results of that experience for ourselves, but coronavirus prevented that. We were grateful, however, to the Danish energy agency for providing us with a written submission in the absence of an opportunity to make a site visit. The Danes described heat networks as a “low-regret investment” that is “agnostic to the heat source” and is adaptable to technological developments in areas such as waste heat and hydrogen.

Municipalities in Denmark oversee the consent process for heat networks and, together with consumer co-operatives, own most of the networks. The balance of power between the national and the local is certainly not like that in the bill. We feel that it would be desirable if that could be modified over time and, yet again, the minister has accepted our recommendation. He recognises that local authorities should be “empowered as far as possible” where they are willing and able. He accepts that heat networks are essentially “local assets” and he says that he will seek to amend the bill to enable the future transfer of consents to councils.

I might offer the minister even more compliments, but I am already in excess of my quota, so I will move on to a question. What is on the wallpaper today? I am told that that is what a Dane asks when they want to know what is on the agenda. On what is left of my wallpaper, I will cover a robust critique of some of the bill’s drafting.

We heard detailed evidence in relation to wayleaves, legal definitions, and the creation of real rights. Professor Roddy Paisley specialises in land law and he impressed even Andy Wightman. We will no doubt hear Andy’s comments shortly.

Professor Paisley made observations on various aspects of the bill. Here are just a few. He said that it is

“somewhat oddly drafted and lacks clarity”

and also that

“I think it will be overly sanguine to expect the builder’s shovel to conform in every or even most situations with the lawyer’s pen.”

He described the bill as

“a half-baked import … In Scotland we can do better than this”

and lastly said:

“It would not be a good idea to model what you propose to do in the bill on what is already in legislation, drafted by the Westminster Parliament”.—[Official Report, Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee, 1 September 2020; c 7.]

That was an interesting contribution and one that we felt ought to be stress tested with another academic. We then presented both sets of views to the Scottish Government. Did the minister respond in a defensive or a derisory way? I am almost dismayed to say that he did not. He described the views as “valuable”. He believes it “crucial” to consider the transparency of wayleave rights and he says that he will seek to amend the bill to address such issues.

Heat networks are hardly a new idea, but a minister who listens—now there is an innovation. We recommend that the general principles of the bill be agreed to.

16:14  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23564, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on stage 1 of the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. 15:55
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate on the bill and that we have reached this point in the process. I thank the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee for its...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the minister think that Ofgem would be the appropriate body?
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
We are very supportive of Ofgem providing the role. Obviously, it is not within our gift to appoint a body that is constituted under a UK statute. We are see...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Heat networks are hardly a new idea. The first modern district heating system was pioneered in a town in the state of New York in 1877. Birdsill Holly, a fri...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
It is welcome to finally be here deliberating legislation to advance heat networks in Scotland, although I feel that it has been a long time coming; so long,...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alexander Burnett Con
If I can have the time back, certainly.
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
The member rightly identifies that we need an accurate understanding of what the heat load and the demand load would be, building by building. Does he apprec...
Alexander Burnett Con
I welcome that reply. I also note for the record that I welcome the minister’s offer in previous conversations to be as constructive as possible on the bill....
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Paul Wheelhouse for introducing the Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill. I welcome the bill as an opportunity to address concerns around the sector and as ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I call Andy Wightman to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Greens. You have up to five minutes, Mr Wightman. 16:28
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
Scottish Greens welcome the bill. I thank the committee’s clerks and all those who gave evidence. As the convener did in his opening remarks, I thank the min...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I hope that the Deputy Presiding Officer might grant Andy Wightman a closing remark, so that he can explain why he was on special manoeuvres, skiing in Siber...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We come to the open debate. 16:37
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
We face a number of challenges around heat. They include the need to decarbonise heat and the fuel poverty that many of our constituents face. Heat networks,...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of interests. It is interesting to take part in the debate as somebody who has not been involved in the committe...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I am grateful to the member for giving way; I will not take much of his time. I very much agree with him about the need for pace. I do not disagree with that...
Edward Mountain Con
I thank the minister for that, and I agree. Whoever is slowing it down and wherever the slowness is, I will criticise those people, because it is a great sch...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As ever, I begin by welcoming the opportunity to contribute to this important debate. Scotland and, by extension, this Scottish Government have a proud reco...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have a little time in hand, so I am giving quizzical looks if members go over their four minutes. I am not upset. 16:51
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you for that reassurance, Presiding Officer. I speak on behalf of all members when I say that we do not like upsetting you at all. Members: Hear, hear.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I echo Edward Mountain’s comment. As a non-committee member, one can feel a little like an interloper, especially on a subject such as this. I would say, how...
Andy Wightman Green
I am very glad that Daniel Johnson mentioned that. Does he agree that what we are seeing in countries such as Denmark is an example of municipal enterprise, ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
By the means of our collective endeavour, we achieve more than we do alone. I do not care much if we want to call that municipal socialism or co-operative en...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I think that Daniel Johnson has just condemned Gordon Lindhurst to banishment by describing him as a municipal socialist—but there we go. I welcome the chan...
Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is perhaps fitting that we are having this debate while many parts of Scotland are seeing the first snow of winter. I was a member of the Economy, Energy...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Colin Beattie, to be followed by Bob Doris. Interruption. I think that you are on mute, Mr Beattie. While we are waiting for things to be sorted at th...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
It is just as well that I was paying attention, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to speak in the debate and to highlight the very real opportunities to boost...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
Tackling our need to decarbonise heating systems must be a major priority for us all. To date, we have been fairly successful in decarbonising our electricit...