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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 11 March 2021

11 Mar 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate on what is a very important bill. We have tackled some extremely difficult topics in the lifetime of the Parliament. Over the past couple of days, we have considered the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill. Another recent one was the Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) (Scotland) Bill, in which we looked at the medical examination of people suffering from sexual abuse and now we are looking at the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill. This is not to say that I think that the bills are without flaws, but it is a credit to the Parliament that we have not shied away from debating and tackling such issues very passionately.

I say at the outset, for the record, that I struggled with some of the votes today. It struck me that we were debating financial redress and not paying enough attention to emotional redress that might require a civil action after accepting a redress payment. We get marshalled lists and I was sometimes uneasy with the way in which we were considering voting. Today’s debate was not political. I recognise the desire of everyone in the chamber to get this incredibly important bill absolutely right. I do not think that we have done that and the bill will need to be changed again in the next parliamentary session.

Sexual abuse, specifically child sexual abuse, has been swept under the carpet for far too long, leaving victims without the support that they so desperately need. As many of my colleagues are aware, I have been working on the issue with a constituent over a number of years. It is fair to say that my understanding of the trauma suffered by my constituent over a prolonged period of time as she seeks justice and redress means that my discomfort and disquiet about the way that victims are retraumatised and open to suffering secondary abuse continues to rise.

Organisations that have been brought into question include local government, the education authorities, the police, the church, support services and the Scottish Government. We should not shy away from scrutinising any of the actions that those organisations were involved in. I have asked the Cabinet Secretary for Justice for a meeting on that topic and he has agreed. I hope that we will get the opportunity to have that meeting prior to the dissolution of the Parliament, so that at least we can have some notes to take forward into the next parliamentary session.

The Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority already has a redress scheme in which the decision is based on the balance of probability. That is different from a criminal court, which decides on the basis of something being beyond reasonable doubt, and means that victims do not need to wait for the outcome of a criminal trial if there is already enough information with which to make a decision on the case. The bill requires that the victim waive their right to future civil action. Any payment from a civil action taken after the CICA award, however, requires that the CICA payment be reimbursed. I contend that the bill is flawed in that respect and that it should not have imposed a ban on future civil action. Why would a victim not just approach the CICA? That will be a matter for future Parliaments to address.

Furthermore, I contend that many of the support organisations for survivors are too close to the Government in that they receive their funding directly from central Government, potentially impacting their ability to be autonomous. As I have said before, record keeping is woefully inadequate, especially in local authorities—there does not seem to be any requirement for them to record potential cases of abuse in local authority-run facilities.

However, in conclusion, the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill, along with the Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) (Scotland) Bill, is welcome and long overdue. We are trying to ensure that it is the best that it can be for all those who have been victims of such a horrendous crime and have to carry that burden throughout their lives, but I fear that the bill will need to be amended. Financial redress will not heal the wounds but will perhaps give them the comfort that their voices have been heard and that there is an acceptance that they have been victims.

I finish by recognising Iain Gray’s contribution to the Parliament. I have always enjoyed his speeches in the chamber. I have not always agreed with him, but he has always been thoughtful and I know that he will be missed, as will Johann Lamont, who also gave her final speech. It has been a privilege to serve on the Public Petitions Committee under her stewardship. I really enjoyed the occasions when we managed to be a tag team on certain petitions, especially in challenging the Scottish Football Association—that was particularly fun. She leaves here having delivered a passionate speech with as much fire as she ever has had. Both Iain Gray and Johann Lamont will be sadly missed.

19:32  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item is a debate on motion S5M-24338, in the name of John Swinney, on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill. 1...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
It is my privilege to open the debate on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill. It has been a very challenging bill on a...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary has just commented on some survivors who are now elderly. The Government has already introduced the advance payment scheme, and at stag...
John Swinney SNP
To date, the advance payment scheme has made 560 payments to elderly and terminally ill survivors. It will remain open until the statutory scheme can accept ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I pay tribute to members of the Education and Skills Committee, which I joined only last year, to its convener and to our clerks and our adviser, for their h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Iain Gray. I understand that this is, indeed, likely to be his last speech in the chamber. 18:49
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I speak in support of the bill, which finally promises some redress for people whom we collectively let down so badly for so lo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Beatrice Wishart. 18:56
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I am not quite ready, Presiding Officer—I was quite taken by Iain Gray’s speech. The bill has been a long time coming. The journey so far has been long and ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I will not tell Iain Gray how old I was when he was first elected to Parliament, but I thank him for how much I have learned from him, particularly on the Ed...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of up to four minutes, please. 19:04
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I, too, pay tribute to Iain Gray. He and I share convenership of the cross-party group on science and technology, and one of the highlights of that was a vis...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Johann Lamont is next. This will be Ms Lamont’s final speech in the chamber. 19:09
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer—just when you have heard from one former Labour leader, another one pops up to say goodbye. We would have quite a lot of them if...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The last contribution in the open debate is from Rona Mackay. 19:18
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Johann Lamont and Iain Gray on their very moving speeches. It is not an exaggeration to call them titans of the Labour movement. I wish them v...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to closing speeches. 19:20
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
In summing up the debate, we can all start from the position that was well outlined by the cabinet secretary, Jamie Greene, Iain Gray, Johann Lamont and othe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have been very lax with the timings tonight. Please do not take advantage, Mr Whittle. You have up to five minutes. 19:26
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate on what is a very important bill. We have tackled some extremely difficult topics in the lifetime...
John Swinney SNP
I am grateful to colleagues for their engagement on the bill and for the recognition that the Government has tried to engage constructively on all the issues...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
That concludes our debate on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill. There are a few items before we turn to decision time.