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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 11 March 2021

11 Mar 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill
Finnie, John Green Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I thank everyone who has got us to this point: Lord Bracadale; the cabinet secretary and his team; the convener of the Justice Committee, Adam Tomkins, whose leadership throughout has been helpful in steering us through important issues such as freedom of speech and the threshold to trigger the offence, which a previous speaker referred to as a safeguard; our committee witnesses; and, as ever, our staff.

In his review, Lord Bracadale stated:

“Hate crime is the term used to describe behaviour which is both criminal and rooted in prejudice.”

We know that hate crime is about people, not about statistics. Sadly, the public scrutiny of the bill has exposed deep-seated prejudice that simply cannot be allowed to prevail. One of the policy objectives of the bill was that it would be user friendly, perhaps not in the precise wording of the legislation but more in the public discourse about the purpose and effect of the bill.

Training is important, and I have confidence in our police and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service when it comes to that.

We cannot forget that the Tories did not just want to prevent the updating of the statutory response to hate crime; they wanted to turn the clock back and remove existing protections. The Tories wanted Scotland to have weaker laws in respect of stirring up racial hatred than there are in other jurisdictions of the United Kingdom.

We have also seen some shameful misrepresentations suggesting that the bill has zero regard for freedom of expression and that family meals would be ruined by a flurry of arrests by police officers—crass nonsense! We also saw amendments that expressed gross indifference to those who do not conform to narrow prejudices, and not just from the Tories.

There were amendments that would have shamefully airbrushed intersex people from existence and amendments that would have undermined the existing protections for transgender people, which have been in place since 2004. The bill, like others, is about balancing human rights. I think that the balance between freedom of expression and the right to private life has been struck in the bill, and countless organisations agree.

George W Bush Jnr once challenged the world, “You’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists.” That was the approach that was taken by many in this debate. I would like to lay out very clearly where the Scottish Green Party is on these issues. We are with those who respect freedom of expression and understand its limits. We are with those, across the globe, seeking to tackle rising hate crime. We are with those who have no one and who only want to be themselves. We are with those who want their community to be rid of the scourge of hate crime. We are with sound parliamentary scrutiny and making good laws—and we will not be bullied by those with mild-sounding social media names and poisonous agendas.

We will stand with those who are abused because of the colour of their skin or their disability. We will stand with those who are subjected to physical and hateful verbal attacks from whatever quarter. We will stand with lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, knowing that they consider hate crime one of their biggest concerns.

The One Scotland website promotes a Scotland that

“believes in equality for all.”

It goes on to state:

“No one should be denied opportunities because of age, disability, gender, gender identity, race, religion or belief, or sexual orientation.”

It is certainly my belief that the bill will play a part in the delivery of that entirely realistic goal. I hope that, after all that the bill has been through, it receives parliamentary backing. The Scottish Green Party will certainly support the bill at decision time tonight.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I will go straight on. There is no time in hand; time is tight. I know that members will understand why. The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I advise Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Hate Crime and Public ...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I wonder what the cabinet secretary has to say about the fact that, in debating the hate crime bill, I am now being accused of hate crime and could expect to...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Ms Smith will not have the police at her door for anything that she has said on the hate crime bill. I am sorry to hear that she has been the victim of hate....
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I will give you an extra minute for taking an intervention.
Humza Yousaf SNP
Thank you. It is so important to recognise the safeguards in the bill; they are really strong safeguards. A necessary element of the new stirring up of hatr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you very much. I am sorry, but I must be very strict with time, because we must go to portfolio questions at half past 2. 13:42
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
All noted, Presiding Officer. Today marks the end of a long and tortuous passage for a bill that was introduced almost a year ago. An unprecedented 2,000-pl...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
I really cannot, Mr Findlay—I am sorry. Will James Kelly really vote for a bill that Free to Disagree points out has considerable parallels to the Offensive...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I recognise the work of the Parliament’s Justice Committee, and in particular its convener Adam Tomkins and those members who participated in consideration o...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I start by again commending Parliament for the rigorous and passionate way in which it conducted its scrutiny of the bill at stage 3 last night. It was, as s...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I thank everyone who has got us to this point: Lord Bracadale; the cabinet secretary and his team; the convener of the Justice Committee, Adam Tomkins, whose...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate with speeches of four minutes. 14:01
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
We have reached the final stage of a bill that has generated more attention from the public and in the media than any other piece of legislation during my ti...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Is it a regret to Rona Mackay that, at 5 pm this evening, no signal will be sent out about the hate crime that women face day and daily?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am afraid that I cannot give you extra time, Ms Mackay. You will have to absorb that in your four minutes—please continue.
Rona Mackay SNP
I will come to that in my speech, if Johann Lamont lets me proceed. Who could argue with protecting minority groups? The bill consolidates and modernises ex...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am afraid that you must conclude.
Rona Mackay SNP
I firmly believe that we should let that group do that important work and come to its conclusions.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am sorry, but you must stop. I take no pleasure in saying that, but the timetable has been set by the Parliamentary Bureau, and I must keep to it. Please a...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
One of the most disappointing aspects of the debate about the bill is that the fact that there is much in it with which everyone can agree often gets lost. W...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Johann Lamont, to be followed by Shona Robison. Ms Robison will be the last speaker in the open debate. 14:10
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I will bow to your discipline, although I am not convinced that my speech will be as disciplined as it should be. If ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. I know that members will understand why I extended the time for Ms Lamont, but for the rest of you—no. We move to closing speeches. 14:17
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
I, for one, will support Johann Lamont’s position and I certainly support her right not to vote for the bill for the good reasons that she set out. I would s...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
As Neil Bibby and Liam McArthur have said, hate crime is, unfortunately, on the rise in Scotland. From that point of view, robust laws to tackle it are welco...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I thank Liam McArthur, John Finnie and Rona Mackay for their kind and generous remarks. The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill is a much-changed pi...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I thank members from across the chamber for their thoughtful speeches. I again thank the Justice Committee and its clerks, the Scottish Government team and o...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member give way?