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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 11 March 2021

11 Mar 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill

I recognise the work of the Parliament’s Justice Committee, and in particular its convener Adam Tomkins and those members who participated in consideration of amendments to the bill yesterday and over the past few months. Whatever their perspective on each of those amendments, how we test arguments is critical to how the Parliament makes good law. When we are considering fundamental principles of equality, human rights and freedom of expression, that process is crucial. I acknowledge that there is concern about aspects of the bill. I also acknowledge the steps that have been taken to address those and make improvements to it.

Scottish Labour believes that hate crime should be dealt with by using the full force of the law. In our manifesto, we made a promise to take a zero-tolerance approach to hate crime. We believe that the law can and should be strengthened, and we have been engaging with stakeholders and other parties to find agreement on how to do that. Crimes that are rooted in prejudice and hatred of another based on any of the protected characteristics should offend and alarm us all. Victims should feel confident that they can come forward and that their doing so will make a difference.

We know that there has been an increase in the number of hate crime charges in recent years and that there is a range of factors behind that. Further analysis is clearly essential, which is why we welcome the new reporting obligations.

Nevertheless, we know from evidence that a lack of clarity around hate crime legislation disadvantages the victim. It is important to remember what Lord Bracadale’s review found, which was that there was confusion about what a hate crime is, language that was difficult to understand and a lack of clarity on what sort of behaviour makes something a hate crime. In that context, it makes sense that we should seek to consolidate, modernise and reform Scotland’s hate crime laws.

We need the bill because hate crime has become more widespread, and society has become more polarised and divided. All of us can see how raw and unpleasant some aspects of political debate have become and how easily hate can rear its head. Although social media has given old hatreds a new platform, we must remember that, in truth, prejudice and hatred in this country never went away. Scotland is no different from the rest of the UK or from many other countries in that regard.

At times, it feels as though the more we have advocated tolerance, the less tolerance there has appeared to be. The bill is necessary to ensure that there is accountability and to prevent unacceptable ill will and malice. The corrosive idea that someone needs to be blamed for societal problems has resulted in the most excluded and underrepresented members of society being targeted and becoming victims of crime. That cannot be allowed to continue.

As we debated yesterday, Scottish Labour believes that the protected characteristic of sex should have been included as an aggravator in the bill. It is deeply regrettable that it has not been, because it is clear that women are subjected to hate because of their sex. We believe that the bill is flawed because of that, and we want that gap to be addressed as soon as possible. We note that the enabling legislation, along with a commitment from the cabinet secretary on timescales, will make sex a protected characteristic more quickly than would the introduction of a totally new piece of legislation, so we will follow the work of Baroness Kennedy’s working group closely.

The bill’s long journey to stage 3 has caused controversy. A bill that aimed to provide clarity has constantly had to be clarified. A bill to consolidate hate crime laws has at times consolidated opposition among the unlikeliest of partners. When it was originally introduced, the bill was deeply flawed but, as the cabinet secretary said, during its progress, Parliament has tackled many of those problems and strengthened its protections. We believe that there are still flaws in the bill—those flaws are on the Government—but we must recognise that, ultimately, the bill will give important protections to minorities, who will welcome it.

The Government has given assurances that it will make the enacted bill work, and we will hold it to those assurances through post-legislative scrutiny. Scottish Labour will vote for the bill as amended but, before we do, we must reflect on how much more must be done to tackle prejudice and hate in Scotland; they cannot be legislated out of existence. Any action that we take must be accompanied by wider societal change in our communities and our workplaces, and an agenda for inclusion in education that tackles the prejudice that we are united against today.

13:53  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I will go straight on. There is no time in hand; time is tight. I know that members will understand why. The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I advise Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Hate Crime and Public ...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I wonder what the cabinet secretary has to say about the fact that, in debating the hate crime bill, I am now being accused of hate crime and could expect to...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Ms Smith will not have the police at her door for anything that she has said on the hate crime bill. I am sorry to hear that she has been the victim of hate....
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I will give you an extra minute for taking an intervention.
Humza Yousaf SNP
Thank you. It is so important to recognise the safeguards in the bill; they are really strong safeguards. A necessary element of the new stirring up of hatr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you very much. I am sorry, but I must be very strict with time, because we must go to portfolio questions at half past 2. 13:42
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
All noted, Presiding Officer. Today marks the end of a long and tortuous passage for a bill that was introduced almost a year ago. An unprecedented 2,000-pl...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
I really cannot, Mr Findlay—I am sorry. Will James Kelly really vote for a bill that Free to Disagree points out has considerable parallels to the Offensive...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I recognise the work of the Parliament’s Justice Committee, and in particular its convener Adam Tomkins and those members who participated in consideration o...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I start by again commending Parliament for the rigorous and passionate way in which it conducted its scrutiny of the bill at stage 3 last night. It was, as s...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I thank everyone who has got us to this point: Lord Bracadale; the cabinet secretary and his team; the convener of the Justice Committee, Adam Tomkins, whose...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate with speeches of four minutes. 14:01
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
We have reached the final stage of a bill that has generated more attention from the public and in the media than any other piece of legislation during my ti...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Is it a regret to Rona Mackay that, at 5 pm this evening, no signal will be sent out about the hate crime that women face day and daily?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am afraid that I cannot give you extra time, Ms Mackay. You will have to absorb that in your four minutes—please continue.
Rona Mackay SNP
I will come to that in my speech, if Johann Lamont lets me proceed. Who could argue with protecting minority groups? The bill consolidates and modernises ex...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am afraid that you must conclude.
Rona Mackay SNP
I firmly believe that we should let that group do that important work and come to its conclusions.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am sorry, but you must stop. I take no pleasure in saying that, but the timetable has been set by the Parliamentary Bureau, and I must keep to it. Please a...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
One of the most disappointing aspects of the debate about the bill is that the fact that there is much in it with which everyone can agree often gets lost. W...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Johann Lamont, to be followed by Shona Robison. Ms Robison will be the last speaker in the open debate. 14:10
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I will bow to your discipline, although I am not convinced that my speech will be as disciplined as it should be. If ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. I know that members will understand why I extended the time for Ms Lamont, but for the rest of you—no. We move to closing speeches. 14:17
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
I, for one, will support Johann Lamont’s position and I certainly support her right not to vote for the bill for the good reasons that she set out. I would s...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
As Neil Bibby and Liam McArthur have said, hate crime is, unfortunately, on the rise in Scotland. From that point of view, robust laws to tackle it are welco...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I thank Liam McArthur, John Finnie and Rona Mackay for their kind and generous remarks. The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill is a much-changed pi...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I thank members from across the chamber for their thoughtful speeches. I again thank the Justice Committee and its clerks, the Scottish Government team and o...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member give way?