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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 28 January 2021

28 Jan 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Kerr, Liam Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I confirm that the Scottish Conservatives will vote in favour of the principles of the Domestic Abuse Protection (Scotland) Bill at decision time tonight. We share the chamber’s condemnation of domestic abuse as a scourge on our society and welcome any attempt to address it and get justice for victims.

In his remarks, the cabinet secretary set out succinctly and well the rationale that underlies the bill. Consideration of the matter is particularly important at the moment, because we know from published data that domestic abuse has risen in Scotland over the past three years—the number of domestic abuse charges was at a four-year high in 2019-20.

At its core, the bill has three basic aims: first, to protect a person at risk of domestic abuse in the immediate term by the giving of a power to a senior police officer to issue a domestic abuse protection notice—DAPN—on a suspected perpetrator of abuse. Secondly, the bill sets out the further legal steps that might be taken to ensure the longer-term safety of a person at risk and specifically gives the civil courts the power, on application by the police, to grant a domestic abuse protection order—DAPO—for up to three months in relation to the perpetrator.

Finally, the bill provides protections around housing, which I am pleased to see. I recall that I proposed an amendment to the bill that became the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018, which called for a review of measures that, among other things, would have excluded someone from a person’s house if they presented an immediate danger to the other person or a child.

As the convener has just made clear, the Justice Committee considered the bill on a tight timescale and I am grateful to the clerks, witnesses and my colleagues for the way in which they approached the process. That shortened timeframe is important to keep in mind, because all members take the view that, although this is an important piece of legislation with excellent aims, it is far from a finished product with regard to precision in drafting and practicality.

The committee was unequivocal that serious practical concerns over the bill would need to be addressed prior to approval at stage 3. It took that position because both legal bodies and the police in particular had signalled outstanding issues with the bill’s drafting, which could mean that its powers—perhaps not regularly used—could prove to be difficult to use in practice.

Officers on the ground must be able to use the law with confidence. I have no doubt that colleagues will talk at length on the bill’s issues, but I will focus my remarks on some of the key concerns that were raised by the police. Police Scotland raised concerns about the unilateral decision making that the bill outlines, particularly in relation to DAPNs. Its submission stated that for the police to be able to issue DAPNs

“without any consultation is not in step with the established partnership approach currently taken across public protection to address risk.”

Police Scotland reminded the committee that, where emergency measures such as those that are outlined in the bill are taken, that is usually done with a

“core group of statutory partners”

who

“have a key role in decision making from the outset.”

Police Scotland proposes that the risk identified must be in line with sexual offence prevention orders, which are well defined. It considers that other statutory and third-party agencies should be able to apply for a DAPO.

On the provisions in section 8, in which only the police can make such an application for an order, Police Scotland noted that

“reliance on a single organisation, such as Police Scotland, to apply the legislation, not only creates a significant and potentially unmanageable demand on a single service, but is out of step with the established partnership approach in Scotland.”

I am grateful to Scottish Women’s Aid, whose helpful briefing today makes a useful suggestion in that regard.

Police Scotland also flagged that the timeframe for DAPNs creates substantial operational challenges. In its written submission, it flagged that the necessary information technology and information sharing, the additional demand on officers, who—I think that I heard the convener of the Justice Committee mention this—spend an average of nine hours dealing with each domestic incident that they attend, and the logistical implications of ensuring legal representations at hearings create

“substantial challenges for the police”

and require sign-off from a senior officer. The Justice Committee heard that senior officers are typically desk based and do not routinely attend at the scene, so how that works in practice is key.

Furthermore, as the committee recommended, it will be important at stage 2 to define what a “reasonable excuse” for breaking a DAPN or a DAPO might be, because there are no examples or definitions in the legislation.

In summary, the concerns include, but are not limited to, the threshold for evidential proof—an issue on which the cabinet secretary responded in his letter, and on which Scottish Women’s Aid has made interesting points; the challenges of risk assessing at the scene; whether there is conflict with the ECHR; how breaches will be dealt with and what constitutes a breach; any liability of Police Scotland on a failure to act; and where DAPNs sit with other court-imposed sanctions or orders relating to children.

Perhaps where all that gets us to is that we need reassurances from the Scottish Government that the police will be appropriately resourced to apply the new legislation. The police must be adequately resourced to respond appropriately when assessing and imposing DAPNs, or dealing with DAPOs, and on enforcement. That will need training, which requires money and time.

In his response to the committee’s report, the cabinet secretary said that he will create an implementation board, which will examine how to bring in the proposed new powers of the police and courts against suspected abuse. The board will involve key partners, including Police Scotland. He said that

“the Implementation Board will carefully consider what guidance and training is required for police officers and others”

and that

“the operational processes required to enable an application for a DAPO to be prepared in line with the timescale set out in the Bill will be considered”.

That is good. However, leaving that aside, I do not see in that the cast-iron commitment to overall resourcing. It feels a bit like this is being back-loaded. Why would that not have been done in preparation for the bill? The cabinet secretary mentioned in his speech that he has spoken to the chief constable about those issues. Ought that not to have been done in advance?

In the same area, I note that the Law Society of Scotland—of which I remind members that I am a member—suggested that

“What would have helped is prior modelling to identify how and in what circumstances ... a DAPO will be used to provide effective short-term remedies.”

The Law Society also said that, although some of the matters that were raised in the Justice Committee’s report might be picked up by the implementation board,

“there needs to be some effective scrutiny, monitoring and evaluation provisions within the Bill including reporting to the Scottish Parliament.”

The Scottish Conservatives will support the bill, but the significant concerns about its operational and resourcing impacts must be addressed if it is to become law, otherwise it could be undermined from the start.

Every effort possible must be taken to prevent domestic abuse. The bill is another attempt to address this vile problem in society. As ever, we will work constructively with the Government to achieve that end.

The bill seeks to provide victims of domestic abuse with the protection that they need, and we are absolutely supportive of that principle. The Scottish Conservatives will always stand up for the victims of crime, and that is why we are very pleased to support the bill at decision time tonight.

15:59  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We shall now carry on with that very important business, which is a debate on motion S5M-23983, in the name of Humza Yousaf, on the Domestic Abuse (Protectio...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I begin by apologising to you, Presiding Officer, and to the entire chamber. I was getting ready to log on before the end of Ms Forbes’s statement, and I can...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
As most members taking part in the debate are doing so remotely, there is no opportunity for interventions. If members want slightly longer for their speech—...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
This is a simple bill that raises quite complex problems—problems that the Justice Committee has not found easy. As we heard from the cabinet secretary, the ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I confirm that the Scottish Conservatives will vote in favour of the principles of the Domestic Abuse Protection (Scotland) Bill at decision time tonight. We...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I, too, thank the clerks, SPICe researchers and witnesses who assisted the committee in arriving at its report on the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, Ms Grant. Liam McArthur will open for the Liberal Democrats. 16:06
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
The Scottish Liberal Democrats strongly support any attempt to improve protection for those at risk of domestic abuse, particularly when they are living with...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
As my colleagues have done, I give the usual thanks to everyone who has brought us to this point. I say at the outset that my legitimate criticism of the bi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members that there is a little time in hand for them to run over their time. 16:19
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
The importance of the bill that we are debating to the victims of domestic abuse cannot be overstated, and I am more than happy to agree to its general princ...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I welcome the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. Scottish Conservatives will always stand up for victims of abuse and we will support th...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Justice Committee, it gives me great pleasure to speak about the bill. As we have heard, the bill builds on the important legislation that...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
First, I thank the Justice Committee for its close scrutiny of this important bill. The pandemic has sparked a plague of domestic violence that the United Na...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
Like others, I begin by thanking the Justice Committee clerks for all their hard work on the bill so far, and the witnesses who provided extremely valuable e...
Liam Kerr Con
Where does the member stand on giving consideration to allowing third-party organisations such as victims groups to file applications for DAPOs?
Shona Robison SNP
I have some sympathy for that. We would need to explore the suggestion further to consider which organisations might be included. It would not be without its...
Rhoda Grant Lab
The debate has been interesting. It is clear that the bill is required and that it has the potential to save lives, so we need to get it right. The bill has ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank the Justice Committee and the clerks for the stage 1 scrutiny of and report on the important Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Bill. Sadly, and...
Humza Yousaf SNP
This has been a very good debate. I welcome the contributions from across the chamber, and I welcome the fact that each and every member we have heard from w...