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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Virtual) 26 January 2021

26 Jan 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Paterson, Gil SNP Clydebank and Milngavie Watch on SPTV

I will address issues that have been raised in the debate. First, though, it would be remiss of me not to thank everyone in the Parliament’s non-Government bills unit for their sterling assistance with my bill over a long period of time. I also thank all the representatives of agencies to whom I spoke and whom I met who are directly involved in the delivery of post mortems in the justice system and who assisted me.

The bill is a simple measure, but it would bring significant benefit to families who lose loved ones in murder cases. I believe that we can assist them in their time of desperate need by putting in place a time limit that begins as soon as the defence is in receipt of the findings of a first post mortem report. I ask members to listen to that timescale carefully—I stress that it is in the bill. Most post mortems are carried out on behalf of the Crown Office. The bill would give the defence 14 clear days to instruct a post mortem on its own behalf. It would also allow a court to extend that time period multiple times, provided that good reasons were given.

It is worth noting that Scotland is unique in its approach to post mortems. I have researched the subject and have been unable to find any other legal jurisdiction in any country in the world that automatically allows a second post mortem to be held on demand by the defence. Most allow a second examination only after application has been made to a judge or a coroner and after good reasons have been provided.

The Crown Office and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice have raised objections to the bill, but I suggest that, if they consider that I have got those aspects wrong, they have not clearly understood my bill. Apart from my own, no evidence on the matter has been presented to the Justice Committee. For that reason alone, I urge members to support my bill, as that would allow the committee to take further evidence on and fully consider the concerns that have been raised by the Crown Office.

Some members have mentioned the Crown Office protocol, which I welcome. It is good, but on its own it is not enough. My bill would not alter or limit the protocol in any way; its purpose is to complement it and make it more effective. Without the bill’s provisions being in place, the defence could still delay for as long as it liked in deciding on a second post mortem. There is nothing that the Crown Office, operating through the protocol, or the courts or the Government could do to force it not to do so, simply because allowing a second post mortem to take place on demand and without limitation is currently the law of Scotland.

I do not want any repeat of what happened in 2016 to families whose children—one of them only 15 years of age—had been brutally murdered. Those families were then caused further distress by the imperfections of our uncaring post mortem system. I am asking for support for my bill tonight for the benefit of families who face a similar tragedy in the future. Voting for the bill tonight will, at the very least, allow the Justice Committee to take the vital evidence that I agree is needed, including on the point that was raised by the Crown. That would allow the Parliament to take a fully informed decision on whether to pass the bill when it reached stage 3.

Presiding Officer, the families have only one ask of us—it is to have their children back as soon as possible, to help them to grieve and to simply lay their children to rest. That is all.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23803, in the name of Gil Paterson, on the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill ...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate on the general principles of the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill. The bill has been a long ti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Adam Tomkins to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee. 16:49
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
This is the second of two members’ bills that have come to the chamber for debate this month after having been examined by the Justice Committee. As I explai...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I begin, first and foremost, by paying tribute to Gil Paterson for his dedication to the issue over several years, and for his hard work in introducing the b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Members will be aware that we are running significantly behind as a result of technical difficulties earlier this afternoon. Therefore, before I call the rem...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives will vote against the bill at decision time, but I make it clear that that is a finely balanced decision, because we have a great ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I congratulate Gil Paterson on introducing the bill. Inaudible.—to introduce a member’s bill, so it is a success to reach this stage. The bill addresses the...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
This is the third of three member’s bill debates that I have covered recently, following our consideration last week of the bills that had been introduced by...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
At decision time, the Scottish Green Party will support the general principles of the bill, which is what we will be voting on. The bill might not be the fin...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate. I ask for three-minute speeches, please. 17:14
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I thank my colleague Gil Paterson for introducing the bill and for his hard work and tenacity on behalf of victims and their families over many years. The bi...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Gil Paterson for the amount of work that he has put into pursing the bill and into an issue that he has raised consistently in Parliament. T...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
It is customary to begin a speech by saying how pleased one is to be taking part in the debate. That is, unfortunately, not the case for me today. To say tha...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
This has been a short debate, but one in which Gil Paterson has highlighted the heartache that any delay in releasing the body of a loved one can cause to a ...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Justice should be paramount in any criminal justice system and should have two ends: protection of the innocent, including victims of crime, and conviction o...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I thank all those who have contributed to the debate. Once again, I pay tribute—as everyone else has—to Gil Paterson’s hard work on the bill. As I said in my...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Gil Paterson, the member in charge of the bill, to wind up the debate. 17:36
Gil Paterson SNP
I will address issues that have been raised in the debate. First, though, it would be remiss of me not to thank everyone in the Parliament’s non-Government b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Thank you very much. That concludes the debate on the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill. It is now time to move on to the next it...