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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Virtual) 26 January 2021

26 Jan 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

This has been a short debate, but one in which Gil Paterson has highlighted the heartache that any delay in releasing the body of a loved one can cause to a family. The plight of Paige Doherty’s family moved him to introduce the bill. It shows how a constituent’s lived experience can influence what happens here in Parliament. I commend Gil for that.

Members have suggested that the bill would affect only a small number of people. That might be right, but we are talking about a difficult point in people’s lives—one that can have a lasting impact.

We need to make legislation that works not only for the majority of people but for minorities, no matter how small. Gil Paterson has made it clear that the proposed 14-day cut-off is not an issue, because it refers to 14 days from the date when the state’s post mortem findings have been received by a defence team. The bill would give the defence team the ability to extend the period by giving it 14 days to decide whether it needed a second post mortem and to apply for an extension to allow it do that.

Many members have welcomed the protocol that has been put in place as a result of Gil Paterson’s bill; the cabinet secretary and Kenny Gibson told us that the protocol is working. However, James Kelly was right to say that that should not minimise the heartache that is faced by families. We need to ensure that the protocol not only works now but continues to do so. The bill could provide the opportunity to enshrine the protocol in legislation, through an amendment.

John Finnie talked about the lack of pathologists, which is an issue that causes delay not only for people in the circumstances that Gil Paterson is trying to address but in all other circumstances that require post mortems. What is the Government doing to ensure that adequate numbers of pathologists are trained, and that they will be available to carry out those difficult tasks? It would be good to hear in its summing-up speech what the Scottish Government is doing to deal with the issue.

It takes time to introduce a bill. Adam Tomkins explained the difficulties that the Justice Committee has faced with Government legislation and the time that it takes to consider it, as well as members’ bills. It is not the committee’s fault that there is not enough time, but surely that is not a good way to treat members’ bills. Government bills continue to go through Parliament without delay, but members’ bills are being lost at an early stage. Kenny Gibson seemed to blame members for that, but we all know how difficult it is to introduce a member’s bill. I am glad that Rona Mackay made it clear that it is not the member’s fault when their bill is not properly scrutinised.

As I said last week with regard to Claire Baker’s Culpable Homicide (Scotland) Bill, agreeing to the motion to pass the bill at stage 1 tonight would not mean that it would be passed at stage 3. In addition, as James Kelly said, if the election is delayed, there will be ample time to carry out the scrutiny that is required to amend the bill and make it right. If there is no time to carry out that scrutiny, the bill will fall, so we would lose nothing by letting it proceed tonight in the hope that we will have time to amend it later, and make a difference to people’s lives.

17:27  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23803, in the name of Gil Paterson, on the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill ...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate on the general principles of the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill. The bill has been a long ti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Adam Tomkins to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee. 16:49
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
This is the second of two members’ bills that have come to the chamber for debate this month after having been examined by the Justice Committee. As I explai...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I begin, first and foremost, by paying tribute to Gil Paterson for his dedication to the issue over several years, and for his hard work in introducing the b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Members will be aware that we are running significantly behind as a result of technical difficulties earlier this afternoon. Therefore, before I call the rem...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives will vote against the bill at decision time, but I make it clear that that is a finely balanced decision, because we have a great ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I congratulate Gil Paterson on introducing the bill. Inaudible.—to introduce a member’s bill, so it is a success to reach this stage. The bill addresses the...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
This is the third of three member’s bill debates that I have covered recently, following our consideration last week of the bills that had been introduced by...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
At decision time, the Scottish Green Party will support the general principles of the bill, which is what we will be voting on. The bill might not be the fin...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate. I ask for three-minute speeches, please. 17:14
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I thank my colleague Gil Paterson for introducing the bill and for his hard work and tenacity on behalf of victims and their families over many years. The bi...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Gil Paterson for the amount of work that he has put into pursing the bill and into an issue that he has raised consistently in Parliament. T...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
It is customary to begin a speech by saying how pleased one is to be taking part in the debate. That is, unfortunately, not the case for me today. To say tha...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
This has been a short debate, but one in which Gil Paterson has highlighted the heartache that any delay in releasing the body of a loved one can cause to a ...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Justice should be paramount in any criminal justice system and should have two ends: protection of the innocent, including victims of crime, and conviction o...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I thank all those who have contributed to the debate. Once again, I pay tribute—as everyone else has—to Gil Paterson’s hard work on the bill. As I said in my...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Gil Paterson, the member in charge of the bill, to wind up the debate. 17:36
Gil Paterson SNP
I will address issues that have been raised in the debate. First, though, it would be remiss of me not to thank everyone in the Parliament’s non-Government b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Thank you very much. That concludes the debate on the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill. It is now time to move on to the next it...