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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Virtual) 26 January 2021

26 Jan 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I congratulate Gil Paterson on introducing the bill. [Inaudible.]—to introduce a member’s bill, so it is a success to reach this stage.

The bill addresses the delays that are faced by families whose loved ones have been murdered. It would try to speed up the time that it takes to release a body for burial. The time that is spent waiting is heartbreaking for families. If we can try to make that terrible situation easier, we should do so.

Concerns about the bill have been highlighted. Would it do what it intends to do? Would it bring earlier closure for families? The truth is that we do not know. The bill has not been scrutinised, so we are unable to take a view on those issues. We know that the bill aims to make things better for the families. It seeks to limit the length of time during which the defence in a criminal case can request a second post mortem. The aim is to ensure that victims’ bodies can be returned to their families as quickly as possible, without hindering the criminal justice process.

The Scottish Government and the Crown Office have highlighted a number of issues regarding the bill. They say that the 14-day time limit is not workable. However, Gil Paterson made it clear that that timeframe could be extended if required and that the clock would not start before the defence had received a copy of the Crown’s post mortem report. That provision is intended to speed up the process and thereby make it easier for families, but it requires to be examined and it is unfortunate that that did not happen in committee prior to this stage 1 debate. That scrutiny needs to happen before the bill proceeds so that, if the bill needs amendment to make it workable, that can be done at stage 2. There are other concerns regarding unintended consequences of the bill that could undermine its policy intention. Those need to be examined and the provisions amended, if possible.

We are told that at present there is a lack of forensic pathologists in Scotland able and willing to carry out post mortems and that that is the main cause for the long delays experienced by grieving families. We are told that the bill will do little to address that core issue and, should the bill lead to an increase in second post mortems, it could result in longer waits. However, it is unclear to me why the bill should lead to more post mortems being carried out. Again, that has not been properly examined at stage 1.

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice concluded that, without full consideration of the issues, the Scottish Government was unable to take a final position and would not vote in favour of the general principles of the bill tonight. However, it is unacceptable for us to vote the bill down simply because there has not been enough time for scrutiny. That is not to say that we do not need scrutiny—we do and that would have to be carried out before stage 2. If there were not time to do that scrutiny at stage 2, then the bill would run out of time and fall.

We owe it to families to leave the bill open to proceed if there is time. If we cannot make the bill workable, we can vote it down at stage 3. If we support the bill tonight, we would still not give it our final approval until it had been scrutinised and amended. I urge members to vote for the bill tonight.

17:08  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23803, in the name of Gil Paterson, on the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill ...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate on the general principles of the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill. The bill has been a long ti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Adam Tomkins to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee. 16:49
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
This is the second of two members’ bills that have come to the chamber for debate this month after having been examined by the Justice Committee. As I explai...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I begin, first and foremost, by paying tribute to Gil Paterson for his dedication to the issue over several years, and for his hard work in introducing the b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Members will be aware that we are running significantly behind as a result of technical difficulties earlier this afternoon. Therefore, before I call the rem...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives will vote against the bill at decision time, but I make it clear that that is a finely balanced decision, because we have a great ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I congratulate Gil Paterson on introducing the bill. Inaudible.—to introduce a member’s bill, so it is a success to reach this stage. The bill addresses the...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
This is the third of three member’s bill debates that I have covered recently, following our consideration last week of the bills that had been introduced by...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
At decision time, the Scottish Green Party will support the general principles of the bill, which is what we will be voting on. The bill might not be the fin...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate. I ask for three-minute speeches, please. 17:14
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I thank my colleague Gil Paterson for introducing the bill and for his hard work and tenacity on behalf of victims and their families over many years. The bi...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Gil Paterson for the amount of work that he has put into pursing the bill and into an issue that he has raised consistently in Parliament. T...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
It is customary to begin a speech by saying how pleased one is to be taking part in the debate. That is, unfortunately, not the case for me today. To say tha...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
This has been a short debate, but one in which Gil Paterson has highlighted the heartache that any delay in releasing the body of a loved one can cause to a ...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Justice should be paramount in any criminal justice system and should have two ends: protection of the innocent, including victims of crime, and conviction o...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I thank all those who have contributed to the debate. Once again, I pay tribute—as everyone else has—to Gil Paterson’s hard work on the bill. As I said in my...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Gil Paterson, the member in charge of the bill, to wind up the debate. 17:36
Gil Paterson SNP
I will address issues that have been raised in the debate. First, though, it would be remiss of me not to thank everyone in the Parliament’s non-Government b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Thank you very much. That concludes the debate on the Post-mortem Examinations (Defence Time Limit) (Scotland) Bill. It is now time to move on to the next it...