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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Virtual) 04 February 2021

04 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
European Charter of Local Self-Government (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Brown, Keith SNP Clackmannanshire and Dunblane Watch on SPTV

I come to the debate with the benefit, most recently, of being a member of the Local Government and Communities Committee, which has held three meetings to hear and consider evidence from a range of bodies on the issues that are covered by the bill. I wish also to draw on my experience working as a local government officer for nearly two decades, as a councillor for 11 years and as a member of the European Committee of the Regions for six years. I recall supporting incorporation of the charter into Scots law at the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities more than 20 years ago, as a council leader.

It is unfortunate that the contributions from the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats—they were coalition partners, of course—have been to change the debate into an anti-SNP rant. I refer in particular to Alexander Stewart’s speech. The idea that, during my time in local government, from the 1980s, anybody would have seen the Conservatives, or latterly the Liberal Democrats, as friends of local government is just laughable.

I congratulate Mr Wightman on introducing his member’s bill in a stage 1 debate in the chamber. As has been said, the bill seeks to incorporate into Scots law the European Charter of Local Self-Government, which is a treaty of the Council of Europe that was adopted in 1985 and ratified by the UK in 1998, before this Parliament was even established.

The Council of Europe is one European institution of which the UK remains a member, despite Brexit. Once again, however, the UK remains typically out of step with the rest of Europe, as the UK and Hungary are the only two countries out of 47 not to have incorporated the charter into their domestic legal frameworks. I am conscious that there have been about four different computations of how many countries have signed up to the charter: we will have to get that right by the time we get to stage 2. Certainly, however, the UK’s position undermines any claims that it makes—as put forward by Alexander Stewart—to be a supporter of what could be called true devolution for local authorities.

Fortunately, in this sphere—if not in others—we in Scotland have the power in our own hands to resist being dragged away from the European mainstream by the Europhobes of Whitehall. Yes—the treaty was ratified in 1998, but ratification does not make law, as the Law Society of Scotland pointed out in its submission, and as the explanatory notes to the bill also make clear. In the legal systems of the UK,

“domestic and international law are distinct and separate from one another”,

and the Law Society agrees with the assessment that

“to give public international law the same legal authority as domestic law it must be incorporated into domestic law.“

The committee received submissions from a range of interested individuals and organisations. Not one of those submissions opposed incorporation of the charter, with most, including those from bodies such as COSLA and the Society of Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators in Scotland clearly supporting the case for incorporation. COSLA said that

“It would strengthen Scotland’s democracy by ensuring that communities enjoy the same local democratic rights that are already commonplace across Europe and beyond”

and that incorporation

“would strengthen local and national government’s ability to work jointly to improve outcomes in communities across Scotland.”

That is something that we have seen across the country over the past year, so I think that this is an appropriate point at which to reflect on the huge effort that has been put in by local council staff, officers and elected members of all different parties across the whole of Scotland throughout the course of the pandemic. In so many situations, they have been on the front line delivering the help, support and advice that the people and communities that we represent have needed.

As we discussed the bill in committee, it became clear that there were concerns that the bill would not make a difference and that it could instead be a charter for endless and expensive legal disputes between different partners in government. I expect and hope that it will not. To those who have said that they want it to establish real parity of esteem among the various arms of government, I say that I share that hope, but I think that what is much more likely to achieve that is the fantastic role that our local authorities have played during the pandemic, in providing absolutely vital local services to people.

I support the bill’s progress to stage 2.

15:31  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23963, in the name of Andy Wightman, on the European Charter of Local Self-Government (Incorporation) (Sc...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Ind) Ind
I am delighted to open this stage 1 debate on the European Charter of Local Self-Government (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill. I thank all those who contribute...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members that, if they want to take part in the debate, they have to type R in the chat function. 14:57
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee, I am pleased to speak in support of the bill, which was introduced by Andy Wightman, our c...
The Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Local Government (Aileen Campbell) SNP
Did you introduce me, Presiding Officer? I did not hear you.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I did, but I am happy to do it—Inaudible. The cabinet secretary will open for the Government.
Aileen Campbell SNP
Apologies—I think that your sound cut out. Nonetheless, I will proceed. I thank Andy Wightman for introducing the bill and steering it to this point. That i...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am delighted to take part in this debate on the European Charter of Local Self-Government (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill and to open on behalf of the Scot...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Sarah Boyack to open for Labour. 15:15
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am delighted that we are discussing the incorporation of the European Charter of Local Self-Government. In 1997, the Labour Government signed up to the cha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call John Finnie to speak on behalf of the Green Party, and I hand over the chair to my colleague. 15:20
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I congratulate my friend and colleague Andy Wightman on getting his worthy bill proposal to this point. I know how much work is involved, and the commitment ...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
I thank my colleague Christine Grahame for handing over the chair. I call Alex Cole-Hamilton, to be followed by Keith Brown. 15:24
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I offer my thanks and the thanks of my party to Andy Wightman for introducing an important bill to the Parliament. It is a reminder of what an asset he is to...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
I come to the debate with the benefit, most recently, of being a member of the Local Government and Communities Committee, which has held three meetings to h...
Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The debate about autonomy for local authorities in Scotland has gone on for some time in the Scottish Parliament. Most parties have, at various points and fr...
David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) SNP
I thank my colleague Andy Wightman for his hard work on the bill. I served as a councillor on Fife Council from 1995 until I was elected as an MSP in 2011. ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate our number 1 pain in the whatever, Andy Wightman, who is so to great and good effect in this particular case, as in so many others. As a memb...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I speak in support of the bill, which seeks to incorporate the European Charter of Local Self-Government into Scots law, as others have mentioned. The chart...
Gordon MacDonald (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank Andy Wightman for introducing the bill. At its heart, this is about strengthening our democracy in every community across Scotland, making it m...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Fulton MacGregor, who will be the final speaker before we move to closing speeches. 15:52
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
As other members have said, the Scottish Government values the role of local government and is committed to supporting the bill. I am not a member of the Loc...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the closing speeches. 15:57
Sarah Boyack Lab
This has been an important debate. Following this bill, it is vital that we see the change that COSLA’s political leadership has agreed that we need on a cro...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
It is a pleasure to speak in the debate. I thank the Local Government and Communities Committee for its work on the bill. It produced a first-class report, a...
Aileen Campbell SNP
It is clear that there is cross-party support for the bill and that members recognise and appreciate the unique role of local government in Scotland. As I ma...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Andy Wightman to close our debate. 16:11
Andy Wightman Ind
I thank all members who have contributed to the debate. I welcome the widespread support and encouragement and the points that have been raised. I will not g...