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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 24 March 2021

24 Mar 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Dogs (Protection of Livestock) (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

Like others, I congratulate Emma Harper on introducing the bill. I pay tribute to Mike Rumbles and John Finnie on their final speeches, and to you, Presiding Officer, as this is also your last meeting in the Parliament.

I am really pleased that Emma Harper introduced the bill. Even this short debate has shown the devastation that can be caused by dogs chasing animals such as sheep. Pregnant ewes can abort their lambs, as Emma Harper said.

Livestock worrying is absolutely distressing to animals. Claudia Beamish talked about owners thinking that their dogs are just having fun—that it is just what dogs do. However, the livestock are being absolutely terrorised. If the owner saw another animal terrorising their dog, they would see the distress that can be caused. There is no hierarchy of animals.

Dogs can kill sheep, as John Scott said. He painted a very vivid picture of what a farmer or crofter sees during sheep worrying incidents. It is devastating and absolutely heart-breaking, because such incidents involve somebody’s animals—animals that they have cared for. It can also be costly, with people losing a huge amount of money.

Colin Smyth told us that most dog owners do not know that their dogs are likely to attack sheep. They are quite often shocked and disturbed by that, and they cannot understand how their dogs will react in such situations. As Clare Adamson said, some dogs have a built-in instinct to immediately start chasing sheep when they see them, which can lead to animals being bitten and killed.

Claudia Beamish highlighted that a lot more people are going out into the country, which means that sheep worrying is becoming a lot more common. As Colin Smyth mentioned, the NFUS said that 72 per cent of their members—a huge number of farmers—are affected by sheep worrying. The NFUS also said that the average cost is £700. If we add up each incident, we can see that it comes to a huge sum of money—money that is lost not just to individuals, but to the rural economy.

I support what Colin Smyth said about data. We will not be able to see how the bill is working unless we gather the data about the incidents that occur and how they are dealt with.

Many members spoke about the important issue of awareness raising. The Government has said that it is taking that on and is making good investment in it, and that needs to continue. We need to make sure that people understand how their dogs will react in such situations. There needs to be education for those using the countryside, to make sure that they keep their dogs on a lead while out in the fields. Those fields might seem just to be wide open spaces in which their dogs can run, but people need to be very careful about what is being farmed in them. Fields can also be dangerous for dogs: cattle can turn on dogs and their owners, which can be absolutely terrifying not only for the dog but for the owner. People could be putting their own lives in danger.

I welcome Police Scotland having the role of policing livestock worrying. It should not be down to individual farmers.

I very much welcome the bill. I pay tribute to Emma Harper. I know that it is not easy to introduce a member’s bill—it takes a lot of hard work, so I say well done. The bill will make a difference.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
The next item of business is a stage 3 debate on motion S5M-24270, in the name of Emma Harper, on the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) (Amendment) (Scotland) B...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am weel chuffed to open the stage 3 debate on my Dogs (Protection of Livestock) (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. I am pleased that the bill, which I have worke...
The Minister for Rural Affairs and the Natural Environment (Ben Macpherson) SNP
I am pleased to speak for the Scottish Government in support of this important legislation, which will do much to protect livestock all across Scotland. I t...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests as a partner in a farming business and a member of NFU Scotland. I am pleased, o...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The bill represents a positive step for Scotland’s agriculture sector and our animal welfare standards, so Scottish Labour is happy to support it. I thank Em...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Mike Rumbles, who will be making his final speech in the Parliament. 16:49
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
I, too, congratulate Emma Harper on introducing the bill. It will be good to get it passed before the session ends. It will be at the last minute, but that w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Thank you, Mr Rumbles. I call John Finnie, who is also making his final speech in Parliament. 16:52
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
Like others before me, I would like to thank everyone who has brought us to this point in the bill, and to congratulate Emma Harper, who has worked extremely...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Mòran taing, Maighstir Finnie. We move to the open debate. I ask for three-minute speeches, please. 16:58
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I can see people around the chamber timing me before I even start. Laughter. I wish John Finnie and Mike Rumbles well, and I particularly thank the cabinet s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
That was a very timely contribution. 17:02
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I have been frantically trying to cut my speech from four to three minutes, Presiding Officer; I will do my best. I thank Emma Harper for introducing the Do...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
On their final day, I offer congratulations to all members who are leaving and to Mike Rumbles and John Finnie in particular for their contributions. I offer...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
John Scott will make a brief contribution before we move to closing speeches. 17:08
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
Thank you for your indulgence, Presiding Officer. I have very little to say except to welcome the passage of the bill and declare an interest—Interruption. I...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Like others, I congratulate Emma Harper on introducing the bill. I pay tribute to Mike Rumbles and John Finnie on their final speeches, and to you, Presiding...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Peter Chapman, who is also making his final speech. 17:13
Peter Chapman (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Let me remind the chamber for the last time that my entry in the register of interests states that I am a member of a farming partnership. As you say, Presid...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I will stop you, Mr Chapman. There is a little disorder in the chamber. I encourage you to confine your remarks to the usual finishing remarks in a final spe...
Peter Chapman Con
I hear what you say, Presiding Officer, but—as I said—some of these issues are, to my mind, very important, so I wish to make the points, as I have stated I ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
On the last day of the current parliamentary session, it seems fitting that we are considering a member’s bill that has strong cross-party support and addres...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Emma Harper to respond to the debate and to wind up. 17:26
Emma Harper SNP
In closing, I have additional people to thank. More than 600 people responded to my consultation in full, and I appreciate the time and input from members of...
Gail Ross (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Emma Harper SNP
Of course I will.
Gail Ross SNP
It would be remiss of me not to personally thank Emma Harper for all the hard work that she has put into the bill. It is a fitting end to our parliamentary s...
Emma Harper SNP
I thank Gail Ross for that. It is very fitting that she mentions Sally Crowe and Joyce Campbell. I know that they will be keen to hear that we are—as I hope—...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We will move to the vote on the bill. Before that, however, I suspend the meeting for a technical break to allow members to access the voting app. 17:31 Mee...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We will go straight to the vote. The question is, that motion S5M-24270, in the name of Emma Harper, on the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) (Amendment) (Scotl...