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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 23 March 2021

23 Mar 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill

We are near the end of the parliamentary session—we have only a day to go—and all of us have been clearing out our offices to get them ready for the next occupant. Those of us who are standing again and are lucky enough to return may end up back in the same room, or we may not.

I am not a great hoarder, but, while I was clearing my office, I came across an unopened bottle of beer with a label that urged me to support the tied pubs bill. Goodness knows how it stayed unopened and forgotten about, but it did. It was dated February 2018. That shows how long it can take for a member to get a bill through the legislative process, if they are lucky.

I had my own abortive attempt at a member’s bill on the protection of buyers of new homes, and I found that immensely frustrating. I had come from the fast-paced newspaper industry, and I realised that I needed to show a little more patience.

I commend anyone who gets to the stage that Neil Bibby has arrived at, and I say well done to him. He has been along a rocky road, but he got there in the end. He put in a fair shift prior to stage 1 in trying to drum up support. It then all went quiet for a bit. Some of us thought that he had dropped the whole thing, but he got to stage 1. When the committee, which I was not on at the time, reported, it did not look good for Mr Bibby and his bill. The committee was divided, but the majority did not support its general principles.

Members of my party and the Scottish National Party members thought that, on balance, the bill should go no further. However, there is a lesson for all those who get to that point: do not give up, because funny things can happen. That happened with Monica Lennon’s Period Products (Free Provision) (Scotland) Bill. I see that Monica Lennon is here. We and the SNP were against that bill, and it looked sunk. My party’s stance then suddenly changed and the SNP’s stance did, too. A hurdle was crossed, and the bill went on to its ultimate conclusion.

The same has happened with the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill. We have changed our stance, and the SNP has fallen into line, too. Funny things happen. Mr Bibby has made it, and I say well done to him.

I have never had strong feelings about the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill one way or the other. It could be argued both ways—the committee’s stage 1 report reflected that. We are prepared to support the bill, but I have to admit to having some reservations about it. I wonder what will happen to the hospitality trade, which has been hollowed out by lockdown. I fear that the good intentions behind the bill may—I stress “may”—lead to some pub companies deciding that it is not worth investing in Scotland, or they could change their business models and remove the tied option, which can be a route into the licensed trade for some. Mr Bibby mentioned that earlier. That would be a shame, but it could happen. It could easily be argued that the time is not right for the bill, if it ever was. I know that a number of colleagues share those concerns, and there must be some SNP members who share them.

Emma McClarkin, who is the chief executive of the British Beer & Pub Association, said that the bill

“poses a real danger to future investment in the sector, entrepreneurship opportunities”

and

“threatens jobs”.

That said, similar legislation was enacted by the Conservative Government in 2015 in England, although the tied pub sector there is much larger. That created a pubs code and an adjudicator that would govern the relationships between some tied pubs’ tenants and their pub-owning company landlords. Mr Bibby’s bill aims to ensure that Scottish tied pub tenants have at least the same protections and opportunities as those covered by the 2015 act. The bill is in a better position than it was, thanks to some sensible amendments and, as I have said, we will back it, albeit with some reservations.

Before I sit down, I should say that my colleague Margaret Mitchell, who also got a member’s bill through, will close for us. It will be Margaret’s final speech as an MSP, so I do not expect her to say much of anything about the bill. She has served the constituents of Central region with distinction since 2003. Until 2016, she was the only Conservative representing the region. It has been a pleasure to work alongside her for the past five years, and I wish her and Henry a happy and healthy retirement.

18:35  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-24271, in the name of Neil Bibby, on the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill at stage 3. 18:19
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It gives me great pleasure to open today’s stage 3 debate on the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill. I lodged the draft proposal for this member’s bill more than four...
The Minister for Business, Fair Work and Skills (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
I am very pleased to be speaking on behalf of the Government in this final debate on the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill. Of course, as I have been at pains to emp...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
I remind members at the back of the chamber that their voices carry. 18:30
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
We are near the end of the parliamentary session—we have only a day to go—and all of us have been clearing out our offices to get them ready for the next occ...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I congratulate Neil Bibby and his team for the tremendous amount of work that they have done to get the bill to this stage. I hope that the bill will be pass...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Probably more than ever before, we know through the pandemic the value of pubs as community assets that play a social role and as major employers that showca...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
If the minister is going to deny that he was charmed, I want to hear from him.
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I will leave others to consider the charm or otherwise of Mr Bibby. I put on the record that at no stage did I state any opposition to the legislation.
Willie Rennie LD
He was charmed even before he knew he was! That is an incredible admission. Neil Bibby’s powers know no bounds. It is true that the profile of the sector in...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I add my sincere congratulations to Neil Bibby, not just on introducing the bill and steering it through but on doing the work of building consensus to get t...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
To say that the evidence that we heard during consideration of the bill was polarised is putting it mildly, and it is fair to say that committee members were...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I, too, congratulate my Labour colleague Neil Bibby on getting the Tied Pubs (Scotland) Bill to stage 3. I recognise all the hard work that he has put in to ...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
I thank Neil Bibby for introducing the bill and for his open engagement throughout the whole process. The bill was not easy for the Economy, Energy and Fair ...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I join other members in congratulating Neil Bibby on securing the passage of his member’s bill on tied pubs later this evening. As many have recounted, it ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Margaret Mitchell, who is making her final speech as a member of the Parliament. 19:02
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I know how much work goes into introducing a member’s bill, and I congratulate Neil Bibby on the tenacity that he has shown in getting it to this stage. The...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank those who have contributed to the debate, which has been something of a revelation. I was interested to see that both Graham Simpson and Patrick Harv...
Neil Bibby Lab
I thank all members who have participated in the debate. I pay tribute to Margaret Mitchell, who just made her final speech. She was a particular help to my...