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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 11 March 2021

11 Mar 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill
Greer, Ross Green West Scotland Watch on SPTV

I will not tell Iain Gray how old I was when he was first elected to Parliament, but I thank him for how much I have learned from him, particularly on the Education and Skills Committee over recent years.

I turn to the bill. At stage 1, I said that the bill was always going to be a painful experience for many survivors, even if they—rightly—wanted it, and that has proven to be the case.

I pay tribute to the survivors—groups and individuals—who fought so hard and for so long to bring us to this point, and to those who shared their experiences and relived their trauma in the process of explaining why redress is so necessary. Their bravery and dignity have been astonishing, and their contribution to the process has had a profound impact on the bill. I know that the scheme is not exactly one that survivors would have chosen—it is not what I would have chosen either—but it is far better for their engagement over recent months and years.

We all support the bill’s principles, but I will be honest: I seriously considered whether I could vote for it in its final form. I was never going to vote against it, but I struggled with the question of proactively approving a bill that contains a waiver scheme that I know causes so much anguish. I spent our unplanned technical break on the phone with colleagues and those we have worked with throughout the process, weighing up what the right choice would be.

It is not so much a question of effective public policy making as it is a question of ethics. At every stage of the process, I have argued for the principle that the scheme should not restrict survivors’ right to pursue justice through civil proceedings, and I am bitterly disappointed that the amendments that would have addressed that were rejected. However, for the sake of avoiding doubt being cast on the scheme, the Green MSPs will all vote for the bill at decision time tonight.

I am not angry at colleagues in Parliament or Government for how the bill has turned out. I am deeply frustrated, but I appreciate that it was never going to be easy, and I thank the Government in particular for the sincere effort that it has made to work with us to explore alternatives and for the collaborative approach that it took to the bill as a whole.

I reserve my anger for some, however. Although a number of potential contributors, such as Quarriers, engaged consistently and constructively with Parliament throughout the process, others chose not to. Parliament is supposed to take decisions on the basis of the evidence that is submitted to us, but the process has been accompanied by the strong implication that the organisations that might end up being significant contributors to the scheme are the most insistent on the inclusion of a waiver, without those organisations being willing to go on the record and make that case. That is cowardly behaviour and, if it is by those that I suspect it is, it is absolutely no surprise. If it becomes known that those organisations decide not to contribute to the scheme, despite the waiver’s inclusion, I intend to use the privilege that this Parliament affords—and which I hope still to have—to name them. For now, I am content to trust the Government and its sincere efforts to ensure that fair and meaningful contributions are made.

Nothing that we ever do can right the wrongs of child abuse. No effort of Parliament or Government today can reverse the failings of our predecessors, but, as the cabinet secretary said, we can and should do all that we can to bring some modicum of justice to survivors.

The scheme represents one avenue through which we will do that. The parliamentary process has made the redress scheme more trauma informed, more supportive of the needs of survivors and more accessible, including to survivors’ next of kin. I am proud to have played a small role in that.

I finish as I started, with my profound thanks to the survivors and their supporters, who have worked with us to make the bill, at the end of the process, better than it was at the start.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item is a debate on motion S5M-24338, in the name of John Swinney, on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill. 1...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
It is my privilege to open the debate on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill. It has been a very challenging bill on a...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary has just commented on some survivors who are now elderly. The Government has already introduced the advance payment scheme, and at stag...
John Swinney SNP
To date, the advance payment scheme has made 560 payments to elderly and terminally ill survivors. It will remain open until the statutory scheme can accept ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I pay tribute to members of the Education and Skills Committee, which I joined only last year, to its convener and to our clerks and our adviser, for their h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Iain Gray. I understand that this is, indeed, likely to be his last speech in the chamber. 18:49
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I speak in support of the bill, which finally promises some redress for people whom we collectively let down so badly for so lo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Beatrice Wishart. 18:56
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I am not quite ready, Presiding Officer—I was quite taken by Iain Gray’s speech. The bill has been a long time coming. The journey so far has been long and ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I will not tell Iain Gray how old I was when he was first elected to Parliament, but I thank him for how much I have learned from him, particularly on the Ed...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of up to four minutes, please. 19:04
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I, too, pay tribute to Iain Gray. He and I share convenership of the cross-party group on science and technology, and one of the highlights of that was a vis...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Johann Lamont is next. This will be Ms Lamont’s final speech in the chamber. 19:09
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer—just when you have heard from one former Labour leader, another one pops up to say goodbye. We would have quite a lot of them if...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The last contribution in the open debate is from Rona Mackay. 19:18
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Johann Lamont and Iain Gray on their very moving speeches. It is not an exaggeration to call them titans of the Labour movement. I wish them v...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to closing speeches. 19:20
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
In summing up the debate, we can all start from the position that was well outlined by the cabinet secretary, Jamie Greene, Iain Gray, Johann Lamont and othe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have been very lax with the timings tonight. Please do not take advantage, Mr Whittle. You have up to five minutes. 19:26
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate on what is a very important bill. We have tackled some extremely difficult topics in the lifetime...
John Swinney SNP
I am grateful to colleagues for their engagement on the bill and for the recognition that the Government has tried to engage constructively on all the issues...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
That concludes our debate on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill. There are a few items before we turn to decision time.