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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)10 March 2021

10 Mar 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

A YouGov poll for UN Women UK that was published this week found that nearly every young woman in the United Kingdom had suffered sexual harassment. Claire Barnett, executive director of UN Women UK, pointed out that it is a human rights issue. As Ms Barnett said,

“It’s just not enough for us to keep saying, ‘this is too difficult a problem for us to solve’—it needs addressing now”.

It does need to be addressed now, and that is why putting off the issue until the next parliamentary session is not convincing. That is why I will vote against the Government whip to support Johann Lamont’s amendments on the issue today. Initially, I did not take that view, because I understand that the proposed sex aggravator is gender neutral. I preferred the idea of an offence of misogyny, or even a female sex aggravator, which was never on the cards—although, given that the hate crime protections in the bill extend to characteristics that do not exist in the Equality Act 2010, perhaps there is really no reason why that could not be the case.

I became convinced that the scale of the sexist violence that women experience at male hands, including the two women a week who are killed by men in the UK, meant that it would be bizarre to exclude them from at least part 1 of the bill. The thing that finally turned me to my current position was the Government’s decision to expand the definition of transgender identity to include cross-dressers who are not trans identified. That is not the definition of gender reassignment in the Equality Act 2010. It will seem bizarre to many people that men who enjoy cross-dressing are protected from hate crime, but women are not.

When we last debated violence against women last November, several members, including ministers, praised the femicide census, which documents the killing of 1,425 women by men in the UK last year, yet we seem to be saying that femicide is not hate. I know that a sex aggravator would protect men, but that is already the case under the 2010 act. In the 2010 act, sex is the characteristic, but it mainly protects women. In the bill, as in the 2010 act, the protected characteristics of race and sexual orientation also protect straight people and white people but would be applied most often in crimes against gay people and black people, who face the most oppression. Therefore, why not also include sex, which would protect women more than men?

A number of official women’s organisations, which have been mentioned by Johann Lamont and which work closely with and are funded by central Government, have backed the decision not to include a sex aggravator. However, as the ForWomen Scotland briefing points out, none of those organisations did any research, even in their own networks, before getting to that position. Those organisations suggest that men could weaponise hate crime in domestic violence cases, but our domestic violence laws are already gender neutral.

Members should be aware that there is a reason why funded organisations take such a view. In the past few years, a major ideological schism has opened up in feminist thought, which has its roots in university gender and so-called queer studies courses, in which it is argued that gender is a personal choice and that sex is an identity. That view is taken by the leadership of most Government-funded organisations. However, it is increasingly being challenged by a growing number of grass-roots feminist movements, which argue that gender roles are oppressive and that women face discrimination, violence and subjugation due to the sex that they were born.

The debate is polarised, but it is dynamic and changing. Only yesterday, one of the grass-roots feminist groups succeeded in a legal challenge to the UK census, which will force the Office for National Statistics to collect only sex at birth and legal sex information in the census. Just two years ago, when my committee took evidence on that issue for our census, the public authorities and some of those funded women’s organisations told us that it was not possible to do so. Those organisations also opposed Johann Lamont’s amendment 28 to the Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) (Scotland) Bill, which ensured that rape victims were able to choose the sex, not just the gender, of their medical examiner. Make no mistake—such positions are as ideological as they are absurd and they have nothing to do with protecting women. I am therefore proud to support Johann Lamont’s amendments today.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item is stage 3 proceedings on the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have with them the bi...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Group 1 is on characteristic of sex. Amendment 4, in the name of Johann Lamont, is grouped with amendments 17, 21 and 26.
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I have issued a detailed letter to all MSPs, outlining the thinking behind all my amendments, and I trust that colleagues have found that useful. I place on ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I will speak to the amendments in Johann Lamont’s name in group 1, and I thank Johann Lamont for lodging them so that we can debate what I and many women reg...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
A YouGov poll for UN Women UK that was published this week found that nearly every young woman in the United Kingdom had suffered sexual harassment. Claire B...
Elaine Smith (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will make a short intervention in support of the amendments in group 1 that have been lodged by Johann Lamont. Over the past few weeks, members from acros...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
This is an important debate and I do not wish to silence anyone’s voices. There are important issues at stake here and it is right that that is reflected in ...
Elaine Smith Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It is unfortunate that, given the way in which the Parliament has to operate during the Covid pandemic, there is no w...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Ms Smith. The point of order relating to proceedings is accurate, in the sense that debates and discussions in which members participate online ar...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Labour will support all the amendments in the group. As Johann Lamont and Pauline McNeill said, in his review of existing hate crime legislation, Lord Bracad...
Annabelle Ewing (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Justice Committee—I should say that I am also a member of the Law Society of Scotland—I have had the opportunity to consider the copious a...
Johann Lamont Lab
Does Annabelle Ewing agree that the women’s groups that argue against the sex aggravator on that basis welcomed the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018, which...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
I think that we all welcomed the 2018 act, which is, indeed, the gold standard and something that the Parliament and the Scottish Government can be very prou...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, Humza Yousaf.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I start by thanking Johann Lamont and all those members who have spoken to her amendments. Although I am about to explain in detail why the Government will n...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Before I invite Johann Lamont to wind up on the group, I notice that Pauline McNeill has requested to speak, so I will bring her in.
Pauline McNeill Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I asked the cabinet secretary a number of questions. Many commentators have concerns about the length of time that his approach...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I thank Pauline McNeill for that and I thank you, Presiding Officer, for facilitating that intervention. On the reason why we should not include a sex aggra...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Johann Lamont to wind up on the group.
Johann Lamont Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. You will appreciate that there are quite a significant number of areas that I want to get through. I have asked why we would a...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The question is, that amendment 4 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. As this is the first division of the afternoon, I will suspend the meeting for five minutes to summon members to the chamber and to...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We come to the division on amendment 4, in the name of Johann Lamont. Members may cast their votes now. The vote is now closed. Please let me know if you ha...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The result of the division on amendment 4, in the name of Johann Lamont, is: For 53, Against 68, Abstentions 0. Amendment 4 disagreed to. Section 3—Offence...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Group 2 is on the threshold for and operation of offences relating to stirring up hatred. Before I call the first amendment, in the name of Liam Kerr, as we ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
My amendments in group 2 are split into two broad principles, and I will speak to each in turn. Amendments 32 and 33 try to protect the right to private and...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I have a simple question for Mr Kerr. If I were to be beaten up because of the colour of my skin, does he think that I would care whether that hatred had bee...
Liam Kerr Con
No—of course it would not. However, here we are talking about the dwelling defence and how we protect people from hate speech that might happen around their ...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
It has been clear for months that, notwithstanding all the criticisms that have been made about the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill, a majority o...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I will speak to the amendments in group 2, beginning with amendment 6. However, I will start in the same place as I did in my response to Johann Lamont’s ame...