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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 04 March 2021

04 Mar 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

Before I get to the important substance of the debate, I commend the committee for introducing a committee bill, which is an underused mechanism in the Parliament. I believe that I am correct in saying that the Parliament has passed only seven committee bills since it came into being in 1999, and all but two of those bills were about internal regulation, matters of standards and other such issues, so the committee is to be commended for introducing a bill of substance that will make a difference. I call on committees in the next parliamentary session to seriously consider using the power and capacity that they have. I am recommending that my committee’s legacy paper makes suggestions about future committee bills that could be introduced.

This is a bill that matters and an issue that matters because, as Gordon Lindhurst set out, statistics matter. We live in a world of post-truth politics where we constantly see the undermining of information sources and the questioning of facts. Quite simply, we need to build back trust, because truth matters, experts matter and statistics matter. What destroys trust is the sense that things are being only partially presented, being spun or being presented in a manner that protects particular interests and diminishes others. The concept of framing information is well understood and one that everyone in the chamber understands. The more opportunity we give for things to be framed from a particular vantage point, the more people’s sense of mistrust in facts and statistics will increase.

We have heard from the Scottish Government that it needs time to understand things. I put it gently to the minister that I am sure that he does not need more than 24 hours to understand a set of numbers. I know that he is pretty good with numbers, and I know that, given a statistical release, I do not need more than a single sleep to digest it.

The minister is right that we need to ensure that people understand what numbers are saying, but I politely say to him that the Government’s perspective is not the only valid perspective—it is not even the only important one. It is important that we have equal access so that we have a balanced debate. For as long as people feel that the debate is imbalanced, we run the risk of undermining trust, which we need to combat.

I politely suggest that the Government needs to learn that lesson urgently. In this week of all weeks, the sooner it releases information, the better. Delays in discharging its duty simply undermine public trust.

I also politely suggest to the Government that, right now, it is sitting on information—critically, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development report—that the Parliament has asked for it to release and which it must release. It is not right that the Government can sit on that report for months while it gives suggestions and asks for alterations and updates.

Quite simply, in the 21st century, time matters. There are no secrets in the 21st century; all that there is is openness. The more people delay or seek to delay, the more they build in mistrust. The time periods were introduced at a time of typing pools and paper memos. A century ago, it took time—it might well have been days—to disseminate information, but it now takes literally milliseconds for information to be duplicated and disseminated.

Quite simply, pre-release access is not good practice; best practice demands early release. Best practice is supported by the Royal Statistical Society, the ONS, the UK Statistics Authority and others. I will put it like this: if the Bank of England, whose data sets are among the most sensitive that are produced across these islands, does not enjoy pre-release access, why should the Scottish Government have it?

15:24  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
As members will be aware, at this point in the proceedings, I am required under the standing orders to decide whether any provision of the Pre-release Access...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Presiding Officer, “They say we’re young and we don’t know”— or at least they did five years ago. They could be forgiven for feeling that we are all now t...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Gordon Lindhurst Con
Not at this stage. Two hundred years ago, a politician wrote the 21-volume “Statistical Account of Scotland”, an undertaking said to have required the labou...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance (Kate Forbes) SNP
In the midst of the biggest economic crisis since the second world war, is it not somewhat worrying that the biggest and most pressing issue that the economy...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
That is the same repeated, and, frankly, boring point that has been made previously in these debates. It is worrying that the Scottish Government considers i...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
On the cabinet secretary’s point, does the member agree that at this time of crisis and emergency, we need facts and figures and that this is about the timin...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
Yes, I agree with the member and I will come on to that point. Let me elaborate on what the bill will do. The first strand would end pre-release access for ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Ivan McKee will open for the Government. 15:11
The Minister for Trade, Innovation and Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
If we go by some of the debates that we have had on the budget over the past while, it would be fair to say that eight out of 10 Tory MSPs do not understand ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the minister not concede that the bill is not about the time that is taken to prepare statistics? It is purely about their release and who has access to...
Ivan McKee SNP
The member is correct that the issue is not about the time that is taken to prepare the statistics, but it is, as I said, about the time that is taken to und...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
When last we debated the bill, I pointed out that statistics are not just numbers on a page, but a public asset that is used to inform policy. It is therefor...
Ivan McKee SNP
I do not know how good the member is with numbers, but how long does he think that it would take him to understand a set of numbers and be able to pass sensi...
Maurice Golden Con
A lot quicker than it would take the minister. The bill does not question the integrity of Scottish Government statistics. It simply seeks to address valid ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Before I get to the important substance of the debate, I commend the committee for introducing a committee bill, which is an underused mechanism in the Parli...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Let me start by picking up on a few things that have already been said. Daniel Johnson talked about data. Data becomes information only when it has been anal...
Daniel Johnson Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Can you clarify whether all members are under an obligation to speak the truth in the chamber and that misleading Par...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That point is true: every member has an obligation to speak the truth. I am not entirely sure that Mr Stevenson was not speaking the truth. He was giving a p...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I hope that my time is not yet up, in the chamber or elsewhere. World statistics day was last November, and the tagline was ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate on stage 3 of the Pre-release Access to Official Statistics (Scotland) Bill.