Hansard

The Convener SNP

Agenda item 2 is our main public business today. It is an evidence session on the Scottish Government’s handling of harassment complaints, in which we will h...

The Convener SNP

I invite the First Minister to make an opening statement.

The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon) SNP

Thank you. The spotlight that was shone on historical workplace harassment in late 2017 was long overdue. It was absolutely right at that time for my Governm...

The Convener SNP

Thank you, First Minister. We will now go to questions. Our committee inquiry, and therefore our report, is split into various sections. It is about the deve...

The First Minister SNP

The genesis of the new policy was of course the #MeToo revelations of late 2017. I do not need to go into detail on that for people around the table. It was ...

The Convener SNP

Thank you—I am sure that that will be the case.

Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con

Good morning, First Minister. I will take you back to when the inquiry was announced in January 2019, when you said: “I say that I will answer any question ...

The First Minister SNP

Ms Mitchell, I consider that that has happened. I concede at the outset that the committee has been frustrated about being unable to access certain informati...

Margaret Mitchell Con

Openness, transparency and accountability are essential for any Government to maintain trust, but the Deputy First Minister has refused to allow the calculat...

The First Minister SNP

In the terms that you have just put it, Ms Mitchell, it would clearly not be acceptable. However, you will not be surprised to hear that, although I understa...

Margaret Mitchell Con

You mentioned that you have been frustrated in having to wait two years to give evidence. Most of us have been in exactly the same position; in fact, we have...

The First Minister SNP

It did not happen in the case of the two complaints that we are considering here because the Government made a mistake—a very serious mistake—in how it appli...

Margaret Mitchell Con

I merely comment that to refer to what happened as a mistake or a serious error is somewhat disingenuous. Interruption. If you could let me finish, First Min...

The First Minister SNP

First, before I answer that, Ms Mitchell, I say genuinely that I am not seeking to be disingenuous in my description of the error. If there is a better word ...

Margaret Mitchell Con

I am conscious of time. All that I will say is that it was entirely in your remit as the Deputy First Minister to look at complaints at an informal stage. We...

The First Minister SNP

We will come on to when I did become aware of things, but, as I think that you have heard in evidence from others, before the November 2017 media query from ...

Margaret Mitchell Con

Can I stop you there, First Minister? I am talking generally. It was five SNP ministers. I remind you that Alex Salmond is a key witness to the inquiry. He i...

The First Minister SNP

My apologies—I was saying that I had not heard anything, so I was not putting him on trial. Forgive me, Ms Mitchell, I do not know exactly what you are refe...

Margaret Mitchell Con

This will be my last point. Just for reference—

The Convener SNP

Could you give the reference for that point, please? 09:45

Margaret Mitchell Con

I will. The FDA said: “In reflecting back on the last 10 years we are aware of approaches on behalf of around 30 members in relation to at least 5 Ministeri...

The First Minister SNP

Now that you have given me the reference, I recognise it. I apologise, but I have not been able to watch all the evidence that has been given to the committe...

Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP

Good morning. I would like to concentrate on the creation of the new procedure in the light of the #MeToo movement. When Mr Salmond gave evidence, he questio...

The First Minister SNP

This might be unfair to Alex but, as I heard his evidence on Friday, he seemed to be saying that he did not think that there should have been a procedure in ...

Maureen Watt SNP

Much has been made about the time difference in devising the policies. Fairness at work was devised over 18 months or so and the new policy took a relatively...

The First Minister SNP

Again, I go back to the climate at the time and, for want of a better expression, the consensus of opinion that there was a big problem, not only in Scotland...

Maureen Watt SNP

Under the fairness at work procedure, mediation is an option that is available in cases of complaints against current ministers, so why is there a difference...

The First Minister SNP

Fairness at work applies only to current ministers and mediation is an option there. There is an open question, which people will have different views on, ab...

Maureen Watt SNP

It is clear from our evidence that, prior to the introduction of the procedure, complaints were sometimes handled informally; we heard Dave Penman of the civ...

The First Minister SNP

I will answer that in two ways. Sometimes, it will be a satisfactory way of dealing with a particular complaint, because it will be satisfactory to the perso...