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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 February 2021

25 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Income Tax Rate Resolution 2021-22
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Mr Mason is right that there are all sorts of factors that lead to people coming to and leaving Scotland. However, if I were him, I would be very nervous about praising the quality of Scotland’s education system, given what we have heard from all the academics and experts who have compared the recent performance of Scotland’s education system with performance in other parts of the world. We seem to be slipping down international league tables. There is a lot of work to do if we are to make Scotland as attractive as it should be to people who want to come here to educate their children.

I will say a little bit about the fiscal framework, which was mentioned in the previous debate but is also relevant to this one. The fiscal framework protects public spending in Scotland, provided that tax revenues in Scotland remain similar to those in other parts of the UK. That is important, and will be particularly important if we end up with a shrinking economy and a falling set of tax revenues. The finance secretary would not have to worry about a falling budget in that scenario, because her budget is protected from reductions, unlike the budgets in all the other countries that she likes to talk about, which face a squeeze on their income. The fiscal framework—which, of course, the Deputy First Minister negotiated on behalf of the Scottish Government—protects the levels of spending in Scotland, and we should welcome that.

In the current year’s budget, the finance secretary has had to account for £300 million of negative reconciliations arising from overestimation of taxes raised during the 2018-19 budget period. The fiscal framework allows the Scottish Government to borrow money in order to fill that hole, which is a very welcome initiative.

We know that the tax changes that the SNP Government introduced have not raised as much money as it predicted they would. I remember, when the tax changes were introduced by the finance secretary’s predecessor, his claims that they would raise up to £600 million—more than half a billion pounds. In his opening remarks, however, the minister gave the game away. In the past year, the tax changes raised only £119 million, which is much less than was originally claimed. That suggests that raising taxes is not a one-way bet in raising additional revenue, as the minister seemed to suggest.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-24225, in the name of Kate Forbes, on the Scottish income tax rate resolution. Members should note that t...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance (Kate Forbes) SNP
Apparently so. I move, That the Parliament agrees that, for the purposes of section 11A of the Income Tax Act 2007 (which provides for income tax to be cha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is excellent—off we go. 16:37
The Minister for Trade, Innovation and Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
I had checked the choreography with my officials earlier. The process is apparently that the cabinet secretary moves then I speak to the motion. I am delight...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is a peculiarity of the budget process that we have to set the rate resolution before our final vote on the budget. We do not yet know the final overall s...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
If I have time, I will give way.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You will get your time back, Mr Fraser.
John Mason SNP
Does Murdo Fraser accept that people are attracted to Scotland for a range of reasons? For most people, the tax rate is not the dominant reason. They come he...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Mason is right that there are all sorts of factors that lead to people coming to and leaving Scotland. However, if I were him, I would be very nervous abo...
Ivan McKee SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
I will, if I have time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The minister must be very brief.
Ivan McKee SNP
I will clarify the point that I made. I said that the £119 million reflects the better performance of income tax raising in Scotland than that in the rest of...
Murdo Fraser Con
That was a very long intervention. If the minister checks the record, he will see that he said—I listened to him very carefully—that the £119 million include...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is some time for interventions. 16:54
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Since the Government took charge of Scottish income tax rates, Labour members have been critical of how it has used the powers. For years, the SNP demanded t...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
This is like a blast from the past—the debates of yesteryear, when we used to argue about tax rises and whether we would get extra revenues or whether there ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
The current session of the Parliament has seen the only substantial tax reform since devolution, with a new, five-band system of income tax that is closely m...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. There is a little time in hand for interventions. 17:07
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
We now move on to the other side of the budget equation: where the money is to come from to pay for the expenditure that we need and want. I have to say that...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
John Mason SNP
I will not, after Mr Findlay’s insult to the cabinet secretary. The section on tax policy in the Finance and Constitution Committee’s report—paragraphs 167 ...
Bill Bowman (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The SNP is seeking members’ agreement to the proposed rates and bands for Scottish income tax. The Scottish Conservatives believe that it is unfair to burden...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way on that point?
Bill Bowman Con
On which point?
Tom Arthur SNP
That was a very good riposte. Can Mr Bowman confirm that it is still Conservative Party policy that there should be parity between the income tax rates in S...
Bill Bowman Con
I will not, because I am not running in the election. I think that Murdo Fraser said that our aim is that we should reach a parity position at least in due c...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
Mr Bowman, through me, please.
Bill Bowman Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. We say to the Scottish people that there is at least one party in this chamber that is on their side, that does not want to s...