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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 24 February 2021

24 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Prisoner Voting

The Conservatives’ motion rings a bell. That is because Liam Kerr and his colleagues have previous. In the run-up to the general election in 2019, the Tories chose to spend their debate time pitching proposals for whole-life prison sentences. That debate, like this one, had nothing to do with improving community safety, the lives of victims or even the small matter of operating within the realms of what is legal. Then, as now, it was not due to a lack of things to focus on even in the justice arena alone—from overcrowded prisons that are rife with Covid to an underresourced police force that is facing its own issues around mental health. The sole purpose of both debates is to posture and grandstand ahead of an election, with no hope, intention or expectation of delivering change.

The Parliament should be looking towards recovery and new ways of doing things better, in justice as in every other area of policy, but the motion speaks to the tired old political logic that, by blowing the dog whistle—making unsubstantiated claims that are based on fear, not fact—votes will come running. Liam Kerr needs to ask himself whether that has any credibility. The public understand that our communities are safer when we invest in smart justice. They understand that a vote is a voice and that having a voice matters to people. They understand that imprisonment should be a chance to give people who have done wrong the opportunity to do right in the future.

That is why the Parliament was right when it overwhelmingly supported a change in prisoner voting rights, as the cabinet secretary rightly reminded us. The previous blanket ban was not fair, progressive or legal, nor did it help rehabilitation or make our communities safer. If we are to reduce reoffending, we need to make people more aware of their responsibilities as citizens, not deepen their sense of alienation. The language that Douglas Ross has used in this context has been illogical and irresponsible. Canada, Ireland, Denmark and the Netherlands all offer voting rights to prisoners—strangely, those democracies remain intact.

For people who care about the rule of law, the motion is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. A blanket ban on prisoner voting would break the law. As with the debate on whole-life sentences, the Tories are asking the Parliament to agree to something that breaches the ECHR. Liam Kerr knows that, and Douglas Ross knows that. As I said, Mr Ross and his colleagues have previous when it comes to wanting to sidestep judicial rulings.

Moreover, in the midst of a pandemic, when our businesses, schools and health services are crying out for help, there are more pressing issues that the Tories might have chosen to debate. Then again, some people in the Conservative Party will always make time to bash out a tired old tune on the trusty old dog whistle.

Scottish Liberal Democrats reject the regressive, evidence-free and counterproductive approach that Liam Kerr proposes. We will support the amendment in Michael Russell’s name.

15:17  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
I remind members to observe the social distancing measures that are in place in the chamber and across the campus, including when entering and exiting the ch...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
During the Shetland by-election in September 2019, the Scottish National Party used ministerial diktat to sneak through a change to the franchise and bypass ...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Liam Kerr Con
I will not give way. Mr Arthur must let me make the point. One hundred and nineteen criminals are currently in prison on a 12-months-or-less sentence for at...
Tom Arthur SNP
Liam Kerr is perfectly entitled to his view. However, I take issue with his suggestion that the SNP pushed through the change. As he knows fine well, changes...
Liam Kerr Con
Mr Arthur’s summary is, indeed, a fact—as is the fact that the minister and his colleagues founded on a misunderstanding of the Hirst judgment in order to pu...
The Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, Europe and External Affairs (Michael Russell) SNP
Again and again, the Conservatives come to the chamber and denounce the choice of topic for a statement or a debate. It is therefore ironic that they have ch...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
For the cabinet secretary to talk about “abuse of the Parliament” this week is a bit rich. Is the cabinet secretary aware of the most recent YouGov polling,...
Michael Russell SNP
I am aware of two things. One is the cynical exploitation of a range of issues this week by the Conservatives. I am familiar with that, it is a disgrace, and...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Michael Russell SNP
I will give way—not because Jamie Halcro Johnston shouts from a sedentary position, but because I am interested in seeing how much more arrogant Mr Kerr will...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We have a point of order from Jamie Halcro Johnston.
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Yet again, we find ourselves in a situation in which the cabinet secretary is using what I would consider disrespectf...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I remind all members of the need for courtesy in their use of language when referring to one another in the chamber.
Liam Kerr Con
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for taking the intervention. When giving criminals the vote, why did the SNP Government go further than it was require...
Michael Russell SNP
It did not go further than required. It put in place a sensible solution that has been used elsewhere. I cannot account for the fact that Mr Kerr seems to re...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Please draw your remarks to a close.
Michael Russell SNP
My amendment rightly wipes out the offensive motion and replaces it with the facts of the matter. I hope that my amendment will be supported across the chamb...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
It is obvious that there is an election in the offing. Today’s debate is, sadly, a waste of all our time. Prisoner voting was debated and voted on in this Pa...
Liam Kerr Con
I am interested in the member’s characterisation of that. If she truly believes in rehabilitation, how can she support the cutting of 300,000 unpaid work hou...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Liam Kerr was at the Justice Committee and heard the questions that I asked of the Cabinet Secretary for Justice about ensuring that the work that went towar...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
The Conservatives’ motion rings a bell. That is because Liam Kerr and his colleagues have previous. In the run-up to the general election in 2019, the Tories...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
The election of a dishonest, racist and misogynist leader, the UK Prime Minister, might suggest that Tories believe in redemption and the power to change. We...
Liam Kerr Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would welcome your guidance; I am wondering whether the member will bother to address the motion at any point in hi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
This is an opening speech in the debate, and I expect Mr Finnie to address the motion.
John Finnie Green
That is what I am doing, Presiding Officer. I value shrieval judgments in Scotland and rulings of the European Court, not the rantings of Mr Kerr about his ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We now move to the open debate. I remind members that we are tight for time—there is a strict four minutes for speeches. 15:20
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am strongly opposed to prisoner voting and have been for a long time. I hope that my decision is based on careful consideration of both sides of the argume...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
In my opinion, the Conservative motion that we are debating is both surprising and baffling. I associate myself with the remarks made earlier by Rhoda Grant,...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Like many other members across the chamber, every day I receive numerous emails about people’s concerns. Particularly in light of the pandemic, they are worr...