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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 24 February 2021

24 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Prisoner Voting
Kerr, Liam Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

Mr Arthur’s summary is, indeed, a fact—as is the fact that the minister and his colleagues founded on a misunderstanding of the Hirst judgment in order to push the change through. I come to that judgment now.

I think that a lot of MSPs in the chamber agree with me, but they will seek comfort, as the minister does in his amendment, in their misunderstanding of the European convention on human rights. They think to themselves, “Look—I don’t like it, but we must do this to be compliant with the ECHR.” That argument is fundamentally flawed, because nowhere does the convention accord an individual right for prisoners to vote. Indeed, for 23 years, until the European Court of Human Rights sought to discover it in the Hirst case, in 2005, there was no such right.

I remind members that Professor Adam Tomkins described the Hirst judgment as

“one of the worst judgments that the European Court of Human Rights has ever handed down”,

predicated as it is

“on a false premise ... that there is a blanket ban on”

prisoners voting in the UK.

In November 2019, the minister himself reminded the chamber that

“Members who are familiar with the Hirst ruling know that the court allows member states a wide margin of appreciation”

and that

“there is no one-size-fits-all approach to ensuring compliance”.—[Official Report, 28 November 2019; c 98, 64.]

That margin is part of our law. During consideration of the Scottish Elections (Franchise and Representation) Bill, the Law Society of Scotland made it clear that

“the franchise of prisoners may be restricted, provided that the restriction is proportionate to”

achieving

“a legitimate aim”,

such as

“enhancing civil responsibility and respect for the rule of law”—[Official Report, Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, 19 September 2019; c 14.]

and avoiding sanctioning law-breaking conduct.

That is why the United Kingdom’s solution to the Hirst case—to give the right to vote to prisoners who are released on temporary licence—has been accepted as a solution by the Committee of Ministers, which is the enforcement agency of the Council of Europe. That is why the European Court has never found that the United Kingdom’s refusal to comply with that ill-considered judgment should result in any kind of damages for disenfranchised prisoners from the United Kingdom or from any Government within it. That is why this Parliament is not, and never was, required by the Hirst judgment to enfranchise prisoners.

There should be no doubt that any member who votes to enfranchise prisoners at decision time tonight will not be required by any law or legal principle to do so, because compliance with Hirst can be achieved by going no further than what the rest of the UK does. I appreciate that there are members who understand that, but believe that rehabilitation prospects are increased by giving prisoners the right to vote. They make that suggestion on the supposition that participating in elections is likely to encourage prisoners to become responsible, law-abiding citizens through what the minister has called “active citizenship”.

In a debate last year, Alex Rowley said that policy should be driven by evidence. I could not agree more. When the bill to which the minister’s amendment refers was debated and passed, neither he, nor any member of the Parliament, adduced a single shred of evidence to suggest that giving prisoners the vote increases the prospects for rehabilitation. There is nothing to that effect in the Audit Scotland report on “Reducing reoffending in Scotland”, nor was such evidence given to the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, which included in its report the following quote in evidence from a criminologist who has studied the issue:

“I have not found evidence to say that the introduction of prisoner voting will lead to a lower rate of recidivism”.—[Official Report, Equalities and Human Rights Committee, 25 January 2018; c 12.]

I predict that the final refuge of those who seek to justify giving prisoners the vote will be a plea based on some form of right to vote, but I ask them to reflect on this. Victims, such as those who have suffered serious assault, attempted murder and sexual assault, which are crimes that, in the past few years, have attracted sentences of 12 months or less, will be watching this debate. They will be asking, “Where were my human rights? What happened to my right to freedom from discrimination, my right to security and my right not to suffer inhuman or degrading treatment?”

When I walk out of the chamber after decision time tonight, I will look victims and their relatives in the eye and say that my Conservative colleagues and I voted to ensure that no individual who is serving a prison sentence should be allowed to vote in the 2021 Scottish Parliament election. My conscience will be clear. Will members of the other parties be able to say the same?

I move,

That the Parliament believes that no individual serving a prison sentence, including criminals convicted of serious assault, robbery and sexual offences, should be allowed to vote in the 2021 Scottish Parliament election.

14:59  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
I remind members to observe the social distancing measures that are in place in the chamber and across the campus, including when entering and exiting the ch...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
During the Shetland by-election in September 2019, the Scottish National Party used ministerial diktat to sneak through a change to the franchise and bypass ...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Liam Kerr Con
I will not give way. Mr Arthur must let me make the point. One hundred and nineteen criminals are currently in prison on a 12-months-or-less sentence for at...
Tom Arthur SNP
Liam Kerr is perfectly entitled to his view. However, I take issue with his suggestion that the SNP pushed through the change. As he knows fine well, changes...
Liam Kerr Con
Mr Arthur’s summary is, indeed, a fact—as is the fact that the minister and his colleagues founded on a misunderstanding of the Hirst judgment in order to pu...
The Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, Europe and External Affairs (Michael Russell) SNP
Again and again, the Conservatives come to the chamber and denounce the choice of topic for a statement or a debate. It is therefore ironic that they have ch...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
For the cabinet secretary to talk about “abuse of the Parliament” this week is a bit rich. Is the cabinet secretary aware of the most recent YouGov polling,...
Michael Russell SNP
I am aware of two things. One is the cynical exploitation of a range of issues this week by the Conservatives. I am familiar with that, it is a disgrace, and...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Michael Russell SNP
I will give way—not because Jamie Halcro Johnston shouts from a sedentary position, but because I am interested in seeing how much more arrogant Mr Kerr will...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We have a point of order from Jamie Halcro Johnston.
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Yet again, we find ourselves in a situation in which the cabinet secretary is using what I would consider disrespectf...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I remind all members of the need for courtesy in their use of language when referring to one another in the chamber.
Liam Kerr Con
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for taking the intervention. When giving criminals the vote, why did the SNP Government go further than it was require...
Michael Russell SNP
It did not go further than required. It put in place a sensible solution that has been used elsewhere. I cannot account for the fact that Mr Kerr seems to re...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Please draw your remarks to a close.
Michael Russell SNP
My amendment rightly wipes out the offensive motion and replaces it with the facts of the matter. I hope that my amendment will be supported across the chamb...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
It is obvious that there is an election in the offing. Today’s debate is, sadly, a waste of all our time. Prisoner voting was debated and voted on in this Pa...
Liam Kerr Con
I am interested in the member’s characterisation of that. If she truly believes in rehabilitation, how can she support the cutting of 300,000 unpaid work hou...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Liam Kerr was at the Justice Committee and heard the questions that I asked of the Cabinet Secretary for Justice about ensuring that the work that went towar...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
The Conservatives’ motion rings a bell. That is because Liam Kerr and his colleagues have previous. In the run-up to the general election in 2019, the Tories...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
The election of a dishonest, racist and misogynist leader, the UK Prime Minister, might suggest that Tories believe in redemption and the power to change. We...
Liam Kerr Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would welcome your guidance; I am wondering whether the member will bother to address the motion at any point in hi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
This is an opening speech in the debate, and I expect Mr Finnie to address the motion.
John Finnie Green
That is what I am doing, Presiding Officer. I value shrieval judgments in Scotland and rulings of the European Court, not the rantings of Mr Kerr about his ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We now move to the open debate. I remind members that we are tight for time—there is a strict four minutes for speeches. 15:20
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am strongly opposed to prisoner voting and have been for a long time. I hope that my decision is based on careful consideration of both sides of the argume...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
In my opinion, the Conservative motion that we are debating is both surprising and baffling. I associate myself with the remarks made earlier by Rhoda Grant,...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Like many other members across the chamber, every day I receive numerous emails about people’s concerns. Particularly in light of the pandemic, they are worr...