Hansard

As others have done, I thank the 100 Scottish citizens in our Citizens Assembly of Scotland, who came together to consider how to find a consensus on the future of Scotland. I also thank all those who have supported the assembly’s discussions and deliberations over eight sessions between October 2019 and December 2020—no easy task, given that much of the assembly took place during the height of the first lockdown caused by Covid-19.

I suppose that it is stating the obvious, but if 100 citizens can come together and have a sensible and serious discussion on how to take Scotland forward, there is clearly a challenge to us all—the 129 MSPs who sit in the Parliament—to be able to do likewise. There is a lesson to us all about a political culture that emphasises the winning of a debate and the scoring of a political point rather than a discussion about how to work together as a Parliament, even when we do not necessarily agree, and to do our best for Scotland irrespective of our differences.

The report makes powerful recommendations on income and poverty, such as making

“the payment of the living wage a legal requirement for all employers”

and making “zero-hour contracts illegal”. I particularly like the recommendation around defining poverty, which is to

“ask citizens three questions: do you have a roof over your head? Can you heat your house? Will you be able to put hot food on the table? If the answer is no, you are in poverty.”

I am sure that we appreciate the need for technical definitions of poverty. The commonly accepted definition of “relative poverty” is:

“individuals living in households whose equivalised income is below 60 percent of median income in the same year.”

The definition goes on to say that

“this is a measure of whether those in the lowest income households are keeping pace with the growth of incomes in the economy as a whole.”

Sometimes housing costs are included, sometimes not, and there is a different definition of “absolute poverty”. As I said, there are good reasons for those definitions—I get that—but what the citizens assembly sought to do at a stroke was to cut through technical definitions to get to the heart of our citizens’ lived experience of the reality of poverty. It is a salient reminder to our Parliament that we have to find ways to do exactly the same thing.

I welcome the recommendation to increase

“the minimum wage for young people aged 16 to 24 to the living wage.”

I appreciate that that power is reserved, but young people, by and large, have a raw deal. I want to say a bit about students. I get that there are mature students out there, but many students are young. Particularly during Covid-19, summer jobs, jobs at Easter, non-term-time and part-time jobs have disappeared like snow off a dyke, yet students have no access to universal credit. We have to systematically consider the impact of changing social conditions on our young people, and I am sure that the citizens assembly could do that well.

There is a variety of recommendations about how we can potentially get more powers to the Scottish Parliament—on immigration and international relations—or greater powers over tax. I am minded that, during his contribution—which was very good—Anas Sarwar said that he would like the question of what our devolution settlement should look like to be studied. At the start of the debate, the Conservatives spoke about differences of opinion. Anas Sarwar and I have different opinions about whether Scotland should be an independent nation but, irrespective of that, we have to find ways of reconciling those differences to come together as a Parliament.

If Scotland does not vote for an independence referendum at the elections in May, we should of course consider what our devolution settlement should look like. However, I hope that we agree that Scotland should have a second independence referendum and assert its national sovereignty. Irrespective of our different views, we should be able to sensibly, maturely and professionally come together to work in Scotland’s best interest.

That was a constitutional point, but I will finish by talking about something that is absolutely not about the constitution—the assembly’s recommendations on apprenticeships and opportunities for young school leavers and graduates in trades and skills, as well as academic pursuits, which matters were of particular interest to the citizens assembly. The recommendations provide an early opportunity for the Scottish Government to measure itself in relation to, for example, the young persons guarantee, its policies with Skills Development Scotland, and further and higher education. Irrespective of our political beliefs and who forms the next Scottish Government, the Government and the Parliament should be required to give themselves a report card on how we are tackling some of the significant and serious issues that have been raised by the citizens assembly.

I look forward to the Scottish Government and our Parliament coming together to measure up to the aspirations of the citizens assembly, because it is up to both the Government and the Parliament to deliver in order to meet those aspirations. Let us be straightforward—Governments of any political hue, whether in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland or the rest of the UK, will not always meet targets or achieve the outcomes that they set for themselves. Quite rightly, Opposition parties should scrutinise and hold Governments to account, but they should also propose constructive solutions. The Parliament should work in partnership to get to where we want to be as a country, and the Citizens Assembly of Scotland has shown us a route map to do that.

This afternoon’s debate has been very helpful, and I look forward to learning more about the future work of the citizens assembly.