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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 17 February 2021

17 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

It is very telling that, minus the reference to the pandemic, this debate is one that Opposition parties have had several times in recent years. With that in mind, I remind members of the considerable volume of evidence that the Education and Skills Committee took between 2016 and 2017, through which it became very clear that many teachers had serious issues with the education agencies—principally Education Scotland and the SQA.

That evidence was presented at the same time as John Swinney made it abundantly clear, when responding to a poor inspection report about the education being delivered in one local authority, that when it came to improving standards in Scottish schools,

“the status quo is not an option”.

I whole-heartedly agreed with him then, and if he repeated that now, I would agree with him again.

I agreed with John Swinney then for two reasons. First, standards in our schools were not as good as they should be, which was clearly shown by several of the indices for basic literacy and numeracy. Secondly, too many teachers were telling us that their trust in Education Scotland and the SQA had diminished. That is not a helpful situation at any time, but it was especially unhelpful during the major curriculum reform of CFE, which, incidentally, John Swinney acknowledged was a bit of a “mystery tour”, and it is certainly unhelpful during a pandemic, when the pressures are even greater.

I do not think that, at the time, John Swinney felt that the committee evidence was as balanced as he would have liked it to be. Nonetheless, he promised an education bill, which, at the time, Nicola Sturgeon said would be the

“most radical change to how schools are run”—[Official Report, 5 September 2017; c 13.]

since devolution. It was lauded not only as a flagship bill, but as a promise to change the status quo.

I can recall conversations with the cabinet secretary in which he seemed utterly determined to improve standards—I believed him on that—and during which he offered to engage with the education spokesmen in each party about what we would like to see. I have here the submission that I made to him at the time, and it is abundantly clear that one of the recommendations to the Scottish Government was that it should reform the education agencies, starting with the decoupling of the policy and inspectorate roles of Education Scotland, on the basis that it should not be judge and jury.

As we know, the education bill was shelved in June 2018, for the reason that the necessary changes could be made without legislative reform—despite the fact that very little data was available to make that judgment. How Mr Swinney must now rue the ditching of that bill, because it seems highly likely that the current OECD report will reveal some things that the Scottish Government does not like—otherwise, why would the Government hold it back?

The Opposition parties are quite right to challenge the Scottish Government about the delay, given how thorough and helpful the previous OECD report was in highlighting the problems that have to be addressed. This time, it is absolutely essential that there is some meaningful action.

The confusion over the lines of accountability is, of course, at the centre of the whole issue. The Education and Skills Committee highlighted that very strongly in its report in 2017 and recommended that it be addressed without delay. To be fair to the cabinet secretary, he was quick to say at the time that the buck stops with him on education policy. However, the trouble is that teachers on the ground do not see it that way just now. They see continued confusion, obfuscation and a lack of transparency at the heart of Government and education agencies, resulting in on-going mistrust.

I distinctly remember telling John Swinney in 2016 that the problems that schools had encountered were caused not by teachers or by pupils but by civil servants and education agencies, with the result that education had become too much of a political football. No one would like to have been in John Swinney’s shoes during the pandemic—he has had an incredibly difficult job—but the pandemic must not be used as an excuse for what is wrong with the governance of Scottish education. There were clear signs of problems many years ago, and nothing has been done to counter them.

15:05  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald) Lab
I remind members that social distancing measures are in place in the chamber and across the Holyrood campus. I ask that members take care to observe the meas...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Education must be at the heart of the recovery. It is a great liberal cause. School closures and remote learning were never going to be easy, but teachers, p...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
The pandemic has presented enormous challenges for our education system and our young people. The cancellation of the examination diets and the move to remot...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Punxsutawney Phil is paraded every February to curious spectators. If he sees his own shadow, he retreats, and they are destined to more wintry gloom; if he ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
As we come to the end of the parliamentary session, it is worth reflecting—as Willie Rennie did—on what the Parliament said about such issues at the start of...
John Swinney SNP
Will Mr Gray give way?
Iain Gray Lab
Certainly—for a quick intervention.
John Swinney SNP
Mr Gray mentioned regional improvement collaboratives. Does he recognise that a great amount of the learning that is now available has been put together thro...
Iain Gray Lab
Mr Swinney refers to the criticism of the national bodies. The review four years ago glided by Education Scotland and the SQA, which sailed on serenely and w...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank the Liberal Democrats for bringing the issue to the chamber for debate. I am glad, in particular, to have the opportunity to expand on the calls that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We are tight for time. I ask all members henceforth to stick to their allotted time. 14:57
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
There is no doubt that teachers, pupils and parents have had the most difficult year due to the Covid-19 pandemic—a year like no other, and one that I hope w...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is very telling that, minus the reference to the pandemic, this debate is one that Opposition parties have had several times in recent years. With that in...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I ask the cabinet secretary to touch on the point about the OECD report in his concluding remarks and to say why, if he has it, it has not been published. I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Clare Adamson will be the last speaker in the open debate. 15:10
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I think that it was Mr Greene who said that he felt that these debates have been a bit like groundhog day during his time in the Parliament and with the educ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Ms Adamson, you are over your time. I have to ask you to draw your remarks to a close.
Clare Adamson SNP
I am sorry, Presiding Officer. It is hard to monitor the time when I am at home. The motion puts the cart before the horse. 15:15
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I agree with the Deputy First Minister that a huge amount of hard work is being done by a great number of people in the SQA and in Education Scotland, and I ...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Today’s debate has pretty much summed up 14 years of SNP education policy failure. Not only is the Government wasting time and energy on plotting to hold an ...
John Swinney SNP
One of the points that Daniel Johnson made does not stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. Mr Johnson acknowledged that public servants had done a great deal o...
Willie Rennie LD
It is a characteristic of the Government that, whenever ministers are under attack, they always use public servants to defend their policy failures. This is ...
John Swinney SNP
That is the pathetic kind of behaviour that we get from Mr Rennie and his colleague Mr Cole-Hamilton on a regular basis. We have public servants in those org...
Oliver Mundell Con
Will Mr Swinney give way?
John Swinney SNP
I certainly will.
Oliver Mundell Con
I cannot believe that Mr Swinney can look young people from deprived communities in the eye and tell them that, under his Government, they have had a fair cr...
John Swinney SNP
I suggest that Mr Mundell acquaints himself with some of the statistics. On attainment of five highers, attainment of one higher from areas of deprivation an...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
There is a lot to be proud of in Scottish education. It has been alarming to see what teachers and learners have had to endure during the pandemic, and let u...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
That concludes the debate on education.