Committee
Local Government and Communities Committee 10 February 2021
10 Feb 2021 · S5 · Local Government and Communities Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Homeless Persons (Unsuitable Accommodation) (Scotland) (Modification and Revocation) (Coronavirus) Order 2021 (SSI 2021/10)
I agree with a great deal of what has been said by Ms Boyack and Mr Brown. Without doubt, as Ms Boyack said, vulnerability has been exacerbated by Covid. We all have a duty to ensure that we do our level best for folk. We have managed to do a great deal during the pandemic in partnership with local authorities and third sector organisations. We have managed to get folk off the streets. The rough sleeping rate is very low in Scotland—as of last week, there are two cases in Glasgow—and third sector organisations are doing their best to get people into accommodation. There is a huge difference between the situation now and the situation before the pandemic. In order to keep people in accommodation, we have to listen to them and meet their needs, which might not be met in mainstream accommodation. It is my duty and the duty of us all to listen to people on the front line about what is required. Mr Brown talked about the Government’s delivery of affordable homes since we came to power in 2007. Mr Brown played his part in ensuring that there were more affordable and social homes in Scotland, and this Government will continue to see housing as a priority. However, we have just lost £218 million in housing consequentials from the United Kingdom Government and there has been a 66.5 per cent cut in financial transactions. Those unhelpful decisions will have a major impact on our delivery of affordable homes. I hope that everyone on the committee supports the Government’s aim to get the UK Government to reverse those decisions. Ms Boyack pointed out a number of problems that have been exacerbated during the pandemic, including domestic violence. We have a duty to ensure that we do our best for people who are fleeing such circumstances, and the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Bill, which has now been introduced, should be helpful in that regard. As has been mentioned, it is also important to consider the stock and not just deal with things in the same old ways. The Cyrenians, Crisis and Streetwork are running a pilot in the PRS in Edinburgh to utilise good private rented stock, some of which has been empty, to get folk into suitable homes. I am more than happy to consider any suggestions that are made in that regard and to move forward accordingly. Many other things have happened during the pandemic, and I pay tribute to those on the front line. We have seen a prisoner release programme, which—I will be honest—caused me some worry in relation to how it might pan out. The front-line workers in councils and third sector organisations managed to cope and deal with the situation and ensured that folks were accommodated appropriately. As I mentioned, we have also seen greater cohesion, with agencies working together to do what is right for people. For me, the most important thing is that folk have actually been listening to the people who are most vulnerable and have been doing the right things to move people on when it was right to do so. Sarah Boyack and Keith Brown mentioned support for renters. At the moment, we have a package of measures in place to support renters. However, we all know that there will be strains on folk as we move forward. That is why the furlough scheme has to continue and why the UK Government should not cut universal credit, which it looks likely to do. Beyond that, the Chancellor of the Exchequer should be thinking more about what needs to be done for renters across these islands. This Parliament does not control housing benefit or the benefits system. We need to find a way to prevent future crises. The UK Government must stop cutting our affordable housing money through its budget, it must not cut universal credit and it must not get rid of the furlough scheme. Across these islands, we need to take cognisance of the real difficulties in which folk find themselves and find a solution for those who have had difficult times during the pandemic. I ask the committee to vote against Andy Wightman’s motion, because annulling the order would be extremely damaging for some of our most vulnerable people at this time.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Under agenda item 4, the committee will take evidence from the minister on the order. Andy Wightman has lodged a motion to annul this negative instrument, wh...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I thank the committee for the opportunity to outline the work that led to the laying of the order. It is clear from the First Minister’s daily updates that t...
The Convener
SNP
We know that COSLA backs the extension, but what about front-line organisations that work with homeless people? Do they say that people are happy to remain i...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
As the committee is well aware, I have regular meetings with front-line organisations, because I want to know exactly what is going on out there. I met a num...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of interests about my former employment with the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations. Minister...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
There were a huge number of questions there, but I would expect nothing less from Ms Boyack. I will bring in Marion Gibbs to describe some of the detail of w...
Marion Gibbs (Scottish Government)
Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Our data collection is comprehensive. I am sure that Sarah Boyack has seen the publications, but we can extract and c...
The Convener
SNP
I think that you have. Minister, do you want to come back in?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I think that we have covered almost all the bases. If we missed anything, we are happy to come back to the committee on it.
The Convener
SNP
Sarah, are you happy with that?
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Yes. I also asked about the proposed national temporary accommodation task force, but I will come back to that later if the minister has not said anything ab...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Good morning, minister. It has been eight or nine months since the original order came into force in May 2020, and we are being invited to extend that again ...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I remind the committee that we brought in the change, early, in May; we were not going to do that until the tail end of this parliamentary session. However, ...
Andy Wightman
Ind
I challenge the notion that the people on the front line to whom you have spoken regard that as being of some utility. Shelter Scotland has told us that the ...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
My officials talk to Shelter Scotland all the time. We have asked for examples of all such issues because I would follow them up. However, I do not have any ...
Andy Wightman
Ind
Finally, I have a quick question about the rights of families and pregnant women to suitable temporary accommodation. Are they being fully met?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I expect local authorities to ensure that pregnant women and families with children are suitably accommodated. That is essential. From what I am seeing, we a...
Marion Gibbs
The unsuitable accommodation order still applies to pregnant women and families with children. We still have the normal rule that has been in place since 201...
The Convener
SNP
We now consider motion S5M-23878, in the name of Andy Wightman, which asks the committee to recommend that the Homeless Persons (Unsuitable Accommodation) (S...
Andy Wightman
Ind
There have been two extensions to the temporary exemption from the order—first until 30 September 2020 and then until 31 January 2021. The instrument would e...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I agree with Andy Wightman’s comments. People are going through horrendous experiences. We are in a difficult position, but I cannot support Andy’s proposal,...
Keith Brown
SNP
I do not agree with Andy Wightman’s position. He does not seem to accept that local authorities have responsibilities in relation to how they manage their pa...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I agree with a great deal of what has been said by Ms Boyack and Mr Brown. Without doubt, as Ms Boyack said, vulnerability has been exacerbated by Covid. We ...
The Convener
SNP
I invite Andy Wightman to respond to the debate.
Andy Wightman
Ind
Time is pressing, so I will be brief. I accept that local authorities have their view and that the minister has his view. Whether homeless people should have...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that motion S5M-23878, in the name of Andy Wightman, be agreed to. Are we agreed? I can see that we are not agreed, so there will be a div...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Motion disagreed to.
The Convener
SNP
The committee has agreed not to recommend to Parliament that the instrument be annulled, and has made no recommendation to Parliament in respect of the instr...