Committee
Local Government and Communities Committee 10 February 2021
10 Feb 2021 · S5 · Local Government and Communities Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Homeless Persons (Unsuitable Accommodation) (Scotland) (Modification and Revocation) (Coronavirus) Order 2021 (SSI 2021/10)
I remind the committee that we brought in the change, early, in May; we were not going to do that until the tail end of this parliamentary session. However, as is right, I wanted to make sure that, as we moved out of the pandemic, that new structure would become the norm, and that is extremely important. When we laid all that in May, I hoped then that—Inaudible.—would not have been necessary, because I hoped, as others did, that we would be over the worst of the pandemic period by this time. However, that is not the case, and we have to react to what is going on out there. Practical challenges have arisen in all areas as a result of Covid-19, and that decision to extend the legislation is a direct and continuing response to those challenges. The Government’s priority and the priority of folks in local authorities and on the front line is to ensure that people are safe, and to respond as best we can to the various health, social and economic harms that arise. That is why, throughout all this, I have spoken continuously to people on the front line and been involved in the housing options hubs meetings to hear at first hand what folk are saying and what is possible and what is not. We are not out of the woods yet, so we should still allow that flexibility. I reiterate the point that I made to the convener earlier: we might shift folk on, but that might not be right for them at that particular moment in time, because not everything is necessarily in place. I have to take cognisance of what folks are saying and what those on the front line are saying. That is why I am asking for the extension, which is backed by local authorities and folk on the front line. The committee must understand that there are still major pressures on people, which have been caused by the pandemic period; our first priority is to keep them as safe as possible.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Under agenda item 4, the committee will take evidence from the minister on the order. Andy Wightman has lodged a motion to annul this negative instrument, wh...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I thank the committee for the opportunity to outline the work that led to the laying of the order. It is clear from the First Minister’s daily updates that t...
The Convener
SNP
We know that COSLA backs the extension, but what about front-line organisations that work with homeless people? Do they say that people are happy to remain i...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
As the committee is well aware, I have regular meetings with front-line organisations, because I want to know exactly what is going on out there. I met a num...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of interests about my former employment with the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations. Minister...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
There were a huge number of questions there, but I would expect nothing less from Ms Boyack. I will bring in Marion Gibbs to describe some of the detail of w...
Marion Gibbs (Scottish Government)
Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Our data collection is comprehensive. I am sure that Sarah Boyack has seen the publications, but we can extract and c...
The Convener
SNP
I think that you have. Minister, do you want to come back in?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I think that we have covered almost all the bases. If we missed anything, we are happy to come back to the committee on it.
The Convener
SNP
Sarah, are you happy with that?
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Yes. I also asked about the proposed national temporary accommodation task force, but I will come back to that later if the minister has not said anything ab...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Good morning, minister. It has been eight or nine months since the original order came into force in May 2020, and we are being invited to extend that again ...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I remind the committee that we brought in the change, early, in May; we were not going to do that until the tail end of this parliamentary session. However, ...
Andy Wightman
Ind
I challenge the notion that the people on the front line to whom you have spoken regard that as being of some utility. Shelter Scotland has told us that the ...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
My officials talk to Shelter Scotland all the time. We have asked for examples of all such issues because I would follow them up. However, I do not have any ...
Andy Wightman
Ind
Finally, I have a quick question about the rights of families and pregnant women to suitable temporary accommodation. Are they being fully met?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I expect local authorities to ensure that pregnant women and families with children are suitably accommodated. That is essential. From what I am seeing, we a...
Marion Gibbs
The unsuitable accommodation order still applies to pregnant women and families with children. We still have the normal rule that has been in place since 201...
The Convener
SNP
We now consider motion S5M-23878, in the name of Andy Wightman, which asks the committee to recommend that the Homeless Persons (Unsuitable Accommodation) (S...
Andy Wightman
Ind
There have been two extensions to the temporary exemption from the order—first until 30 September 2020 and then until 31 January 2021. The instrument would e...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I agree with Andy Wightman’s comments. People are going through horrendous experiences. We are in a difficult position, but I cannot support Andy’s proposal,...
Keith Brown
SNP
I do not agree with Andy Wightman’s position. He does not seem to accept that local authorities have responsibilities in relation to how they manage their pa...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I agree with a great deal of what has been said by Ms Boyack and Mr Brown. Without doubt, as Ms Boyack said, vulnerability has been exacerbated by Covid. We ...
The Convener
SNP
I invite Andy Wightman to respond to the debate.
Andy Wightman
Ind
Time is pressing, so I will be brief. I accept that local authorities have their view and that the minister has his view. Whether homeless people should have...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that motion S5M-23878, in the name of Andy Wightman, be agreed to. Are we agreed? I can see that we are not agreed, so there will be a div...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Motion disagreed to.
The Convener
SNP
The committee has agreed not to recommend to Parliament that the instrument be annulled, and has made no recommendation to Parliament in respect of the instr...