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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 February 2021

03 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Unexplained Wealth Orders (Donald Trump)

I thank members for taking part in what was a deliberately short debate—partly because of the need to prioritise the Covid debate and partly because the issue needs a decision rather than a lengthy debate. It certainly was not intended to be about “finger wagging”, as the cabinet secretary, perhaps tongue in cheek, described it.

Mr Yousaf called Trump “deplorable”, but he maintains that it is not for ministers to act. I say that holding someone such as Trump accountable specifically for being what is defined in law as a “politically exposed person” is a legitimate political choice. Given that other authorities around the world are prepared to do that, we should play our part.

I think that the SNP regrets its previous errors in courting Trump, even though some of the individuals who were involved at the time remain in high office today. I hope that their predecessors in the Labour-Lib Dem coalition also regret courting Trump. The comments from Alex Rowley and Liam McArthur suggest that they do. Everybody knew what sort of person Trump was, but perhaps they did not see the scale of the threat that he posed or the damage that Scotland’s reputation might suffer from association with the toxic Trump brand.

Liam Kerr and the cabinet secretary repeatedly expressed concern about independent prosecution. I say, again, that the proposal is not for prosecution; it is simply about asking the courts to seek answers to reasonable questions. Colin Smyth made that point well.

It would not surprise me if some Conservatives reject the case for holding Trump to account, given that so many of their colleagues tried to normalise his politics or even praised him and his extremist movement. However, I welcome support from Labour and the Lib Dems.

I appeal to SNP members who recognise that Scotland made a serious error of judgment in inviting the toxic Trump brand into Scotland. Let us not just acknowledge the mistake but seek transparency, accountability and the information that we need to answer the serious concerns that have been raised.

Trump can no longer be dismissed as just an unpleasant, bullying developer or a celebrity conspiracy theorist with offensive views. He became, and remains, a political danger not only in the US but globally. He has used his platform to promote fascists in this country and still has links with far-right politicians here. The threat that he brought to the US Congress a few weeks ago is by no means limited to the US.

If suspicions of financial illegal practices had been swirling around a disgraced former President of a developing or undemocratic country in Africa or eastern Europe, I do not think that there is any doubt that we would have acted by now. The unexplained wealth order is the obvious mechanism through which to act.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a Scottish Green Party debate on motion S5M-24030, in the name of Patrick Harvie, on unexplained wealth orders, Donald Trump. 1...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
This is a story that goes back a long way. In previous chapters, we saw two successive First Ministers—Jack McConnell and Alex Salmond—actively courting the ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
Before I go into the detail of the motion and our amendment, let me make it clear that, frankly, I find former President Donald Trump to be a deplorable indi...
Patrick Harvie Green
I entirely recognise that the Scottish Government is entitled to delegate certain decisions to the civil recovery unit or the Lord Advocate, but that does no...
Humza Yousaf SNP
No, Patrick Harvie is incorrect. He is asking the Cabinet to make a political decision on instigating an investigation into an individual. I have sat in many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I cannot recall whether you moved your amendment, cabinet secretary.
Humza Yousaf SNP
I move amendment S5M-24030.1, to leave out from “calls” to end and insert: “notes the calls on the Scottish Ministers to use powers under the Proceeds of Cr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You may have moved it twice, but so be it. 16:45
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
With just four minutes to contribute to the debate, I shall be brief. I remind members that I am a member of the legal profession, although I am an employme...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
I really do not have time. Crown Office investigations must not, of course, be motivated by political pressure, and trying to influence the Crown Office wou...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open for Labour in this debate on a motion that “calls on the Scottish Ministers to use their powers under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 to...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Let us be clear: the unexplained wealth order was specifically designed to bring transparency to the murkiest of dealings. All that today’s motion does is ca...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Like other members, my main concern is Covid, the vaccination programme, and bringing the pandemic under control. However, even with the pandemic consuming t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am glad that you noticed the time, Ms Harper. You made a very interesting contribution, although I do not know whether you actually spoke to the amendment....
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to hear that, Presiding Officer. Like most members, I celebrated the results of the US presidential election and counted down the days to Joe B...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member is in his last seconds.
Colin Smyth Lab
I was literally on my last sentence, but I am sure that the cabinet secretary will pick up on the point that he was going to make in his closing speech. I b...
Alex Rowley Lab
Emma Harper made an interesting point about Trump and his impact on America, which is now a deeply divided country—it is the divided states of America. There...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
By now, unexplained wealth orders are a well-established part of Scotland’s ability to tackle criminal wealth and property retention but, as a legal process,...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I will address some of the remarks that have been made in members’ speeches. It seems that we all have a universal dislike of former President, Donald Trump....
Patrick Harvie Green
I thank members for taking part in what was a deliberately short debate—partly because of the need to prioritise the Covid debate and partly because the issu...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I want to make sure that Mr Harvie is not insinuating that, if the former President was a person of colour, we would somehow treat him any differently, becau...
Patrick Harvie Green
I think that a country that is less powerful than the US would be treated very differently. I do not lay that at the cabinet secretary‘s door, as he has said...