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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 February 2021

03 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Unexplained Wealth Orders (Donald Trump)

By now, unexplained wealth orders are a well-established part of Scotland’s ability to tackle criminal wealth and property retention but, as a legal process, their basis and investigation, should they be used, should be entirely independent of Government. In other words, they should be non-political.

No one, including politicians, should be above the law but, at the same time, the law should treat everyone equally, including politicians. The old statue of Justice holding up a set of scales blindfolded may be familiar to us, and the picture presented by the statue is a very real one: the law in action in the justice system should be fair and balanced in its application. It is understandable why the Scottish Government—quite rightly in my view—is hesitant about doing what is being asked of it in this case. The orders should not just be unavailable to be used as a political tool; they should be above suspicion of being used as a political tool.

The old legal adage nemo judex in sua causa—no man may be the judge in his own cause—reminds us that the principle goes far beyond the judge’s chair in the courtroom. Indeed, it reaches to the Crown Office and those who work there.

Certainty of law, another eternal principle of justice, means that individuals, whoever they be, should not be subject to criminal proceedings simply because of the views of those who happen to hold elected office at any given time—those who may, like a certain recently replaced President of a major North American country, be here today and gone tomorrow—the ballot box being where such issues should and have always been decided in a democracy.

The Crown Office has featured in the news lately; I am sure that no one who is listening to the debate has missed that. This Scottish Parliament should be focused on getting our own house in order here in Scotland. That focus has at times been sadly lacking from the current SNP Government, but even it recognises the difficulty with the motion as placed before the Parliament. The amendment in the name of the Cabinet Secretary for Justice notes the need for an absence of

“political interference in the enforcement of the law”.

I, for one, welcome that.

The Crown Office should be best placed to ascertain whether the criteria for the basis of an unexplained wealth order exist, and how and whether the matter should be investigated. That is where the matter should lie, whatever the powers available, not with politicians.

17:08  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a Scottish Green Party debate on motion S5M-24030, in the name of Patrick Harvie, on unexplained wealth orders, Donald Trump. 1...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
This is a story that goes back a long way. In previous chapters, we saw two successive First Ministers—Jack McConnell and Alex Salmond—actively courting the ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
Before I go into the detail of the motion and our amendment, let me make it clear that, frankly, I find former President Donald Trump to be a deplorable indi...
Patrick Harvie Green
I entirely recognise that the Scottish Government is entitled to delegate certain decisions to the civil recovery unit or the Lord Advocate, but that does no...
Humza Yousaf SNP
No, Patrick Harvie is incorrect. He is asking the Cabinet to make a political decision on instigating an investigation into an individual. I have sat in many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I cannot recall whether you moved your amendment, cabinet secretary.
Humza Yousaf SNP
I move amendment S5M-24030.1, to leave out from “calls” to end and insert: “notes the calls on the Scottish Ministers to use powers under the Proceeds of Cr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You may have moved it twice, but so be it. 16:45
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
With just four minutes to contribute to the debate, I shall be brief. I remind members that I am a member of the legal profession, although I am an employme...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
I really do not have time. Crown Office investigations must not, of course, be motivated by political pressure, and trying to influence the Crown Office wou...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open for Labour in this debate on a motion that “calls on the Scottish Ministers to use their powers under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 to...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Let us be clear: the unexplained wealth order was specifically designed to bring transparency to the murkiest of dealings. All that today’s motion does is ca...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Like other members, my main concern is Covid, the vaccination programme, and bringing the pandemic under control. However, even with the pandemic consuming t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am glad that you noticed the time, Ms Harper. You made a very interesting contribution, although I do not know whether you actually spoke to the amendment....
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to hear that, Presiding Officer. Like most members, I celebrated the results of the US presidential election and counted down the days to Joe B...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member is in his last seconds.
Colin Smyth Lab
I was literally on my last sentence, but I am sure that the cabinet secretary will pick up on the point that he was going to make in his closing speech. I b...
Alex Rowley Lab
Emma Harper made an interesting point about Trump and his impact on America, which is now a deeply divided country—it is the divided states of America. There...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
By now, unexplained wealth orders are a well-established part of Scotland’s ability to tackle criminal wealth and property retention but, as a legal process,...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I will address some of the remarks that have been made in members’ speeches. It seems that we all have a universal dislike of former President, Donald Trump....
Patrick Harvie Green
I thank members for taking part in what was a deliberately short debate—partly because of the need to prioritise the Covid debate and partly because the issu...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I want to make sure that Mr Harvie is not insinuating that, if the former President was a person of colour, we would somehow treat him any differently, becau...
Patrick Harvie Green
I think that a country that is less powerful than the US would be treated very differently. I do not lay that at the cabinet secretary‘s door, as he has said...