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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 February 2021

03 Feb 2021 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Unexplained Wealth Orders (Donald Trump)
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Emma Harper made an interesting point about Trump and his impact on America, which is now a deeply divided country—it is the divided states of America. There is a lesson there for politicians in our country. When politicians sow the seeds of division in the way that we have seen, they will get such an outcome.

To get back to the subject of today’s debate, the cabinet secretary is hiding behind the law. Commonly, he uses a lot of rhetoric about what he does not like but fails to take the action that is necessary, and that is what we see today. Avaaz has said that there are two critical questions to which Scottish ministers have the power and the justification to seek answers: how did Mr Trump raise enough up-front liquid assets to buy Turnberry, given what was known about his financial straits at the time; and was Scotland exploited as a money-laundering agent? Those are legitimate questions to which ministers should want to seek answers. I can understand why the Tories would not want to seek answers to such questions, but I cannot understand why SNP members continually team up with the Tories—as they will again tonight—to block the legitimate concerns that are being raised. Parliamentarians have raised legitimate questions, but Humza Yousaf is hiding behind some legal argument that says that everything is down to the Lord Advocate.

Basically, Avaaz says that the First Minister has designated the Lord Advocate as the relevant Scottish minister responsible for carrying out the unexplained wealth order portfolio. Because of the wording of section 396A of the 2002 act, any such appointment by the First Minister of the Lord Advocate can be made only in his capacity as one of the Scottish ministers. As such, any decision by him in his capacity as her designated minister with immediate responsibility in relation to the administration and operation of the unexplained wealth order regime remains, at all times, one that falls within the collective responsibility of Scottish ministers.

The point is that Scottish ministers have the power to put the order in place, and Mr Yousaf should come off the fence and stop hiding behind the Lord Advocate. This matter is the responsibility of Government, and I urge members to support the Greens’ motion.

17:05  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a Scottish Green Party debate on motion S5M-24030, in the name of Patrick Harvie, on unexplained wealth orders, Donald Trump. 1...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
This is a story that goes back a long way. In previous chapters, we saw two successive First Ministers—Jack McConnell and Alex Salmond—actively courting the ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Humza Yousaf) SNP
Before I go into the detail of the motion and our amendment, let me make it clear that, frankly, I find former President Donald Trump to be a deplorable indi...
Patrick Harvie Green
I entirely recognise that the Scottish Government is entitled to delegate certain decisions to the civil recovery unit or the Lord Advocate, but that does no...
Humza Yousaf SNP
No, Patrick Harvie is incorrect. He is asking the Cabinet to make a political decision on instigating an investigation into an individual. I have sat in many...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I cannot recall whether you moved your amendment, cabinet secretary.
Humza Yousaf SNP
I move amendment S5M-24030.1, to leave out from “calls” to end and insert: “notes the calls on the Scottish Ministers to use powers under the Proceeds of Cr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You may have moved it twice, but so be it. 16:45
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
With just four minutes to contribute to the debate, I shall be brief. I remind members that I am a member of the legal profession, although I am an employme...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
I really do not have time. Crown Office investigations must not, of course, be motivated by political pressure, and trying to influence the Crown Office wou...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open for Labour in this debate on a motion that “calls on the Scottish Ministers to use their powers under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 to...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Let us be clear: the unexplained wealth order was specifically designed to bring transparency to the murkiest of dealings. All that today’s motion does is ca...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Like other members, my main concern is Covid, the vaccination programme, and bringing the pandemic under control. However, even with the pandemic consuming t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am glad that you noticed the time, Ms Harper. You made a very interesting contribution, although I do not know whether you actually spoke to the amendment....
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to hear that, Presiding Officer. Like most members, I celebrated the results of the US presidential election and counted down the days to Joe B...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member is in his last seconds.
Colin Smyth Lab
I was literally on my last sentence, but I am sure that the cabinet secretary will pick up on the point that he was going to make in his closing speech. I b...
Alex Rowley Lab
Emma Harper made an interesting point about Trump and his impact on America, which is now a deeply divided country—it is the divided states of America. There...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
By now, unexplained wealth orders are a well-established part of Scotland’s ability to tackle criminal wealth and property retention but, as a legal process,...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I will address some of the remarks that have been made in members’ speeches. It seems that we all have a universal dislike of former President, Donald Trump....
Patrick Harvie Green
I thank members for taking part in what was a deliberately short debate—partly because of the need to prioritise the Covid debate and partly because the issu...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I want to make sure that Mr Harvie is not insinuating that, if the former President was a person of colour, we would somehow treat him any differently, becau...
Patrick Harvie Green
I think that a country that is less powerful than the US would be treated very differently. I do not lay that at the cabinet secretary‘s door, as he has said...